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Frozen (Disney film)

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jessicadicicco610 Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#18951: Apr 17th 2020 at 4:20:07 AM

It might've originated there, but Wreck It Ralph got the ball rolling, and this movie had everyone talking.

GlitterCat Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#18952: Apr 17th 2020 at 5:23:07 AM

How about Henry J. Waternoose, or Charles Muntz, or Buddy Pine? Pixar uses the twist villain a lot.

see my completed Tangled (Varian) fanfic collection! https://archiveofourown.org/works/24467056/chapters/59049532
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18953: Apr 17th 2020 at 6:04:59 AM

Pixar's stories have always been somewhat more complex than the Disney ones (OK, complex is not the right word here, but I can't find it).
The Incredibles feels more like James Bond movies at times, with mooks dying onscreen and using firearms against children, and Brave already explored the relationship of princesses and mandatory love interests.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
PRC4Eva Since: Jan, 2001
#18954: Apr 17th 2020 at 12:35:29 PM

Individual elements of the things that Frozen 1 was praised for have shown up in prior Disney works, yes. One might even go as far back as Mulan for the "female protagonist goes out on a quest by herself" thing. Or Enchanted for the "gentle ribbing of our own established tropes and conventions" thing.

It's just that F1 puts all of these things together in a simple and concise package.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18955: Apr 17th 2020 at 1:39:49 PM

Did Disney already have a character such as Elsa? It seems to me she might be the one really new element in Frozen, which by the way would explain why she became so popular.

Edited by C105 on Apr 17th 2020 at 10:40:07 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#18956: Apr 17th 2020 at 4:26:16 PM

Elsa seems to be the first Disney female co-protagonist (people overlook that Anna actually has more screen time in F1) who has powerful abilities that give her much more creative potential than other Disney women, who are surrounded by magical characters but otherwise are muggles. Rapunzel technically came before Elsa as a magical woman, but her healing abilities still largely render her a Badass Normal who still is not capable of belting out songs while single-handedly building ice castles and changing the weather with special effects.

More significantly, you have how Elsa is the first Disney woman who has never been involved with a romance plot. Even Mulan ends her movie with Shang beginning a relationship with her. Her singleness in my honest opinion is her biggest draw to fans of all genders, since they can now project their own experiences with hers. Fanfic writers are overjoyed because her singleness allows her to be shipped with whoever they want without having to get a canon love interest out of the way.

Elsa status as being the avatar of several male tropers on this site attests.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18957: Apr 17th 2020 at 6:01:30 PM

Elsa is the first Disney woman who has never been involved with a romance plot

There were others like Alice from Alice in Wonderland, but Elsa's certainly the most high profile.

yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18958: Apr 18th 2020 at 3:21:36 AM

[up]Alice was too young to have romance plot...she was only 10 years old

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#18959: Apr 18th 2020 at 12:36:40 PM

Are there any critique videos for II made by fans of the original? I tried typing in "Frozen II rant" and "Frozen II criticism" into Youtube but I'm skeptical by the results.

[up] Puppy Love is a trope.

GlitterCat Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#18960: Apr 18th 2020 at 1:01:33 PM

I think one of the reasons they aged up Alice in the live action series was so they could have a romance angle with the Mad Hatter.

see my completed Tangled (Varian) fanfic collection! https://archiveofourown.org/works/24467056/chapters/59049532
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18961: Apr 18th 2020 at 1:01:38 PM

[up][up]Well there's Coley's video and Jenny Nicholson's.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 18th 2020 at 1:05:18 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18962: Apr 18th 2020 at 1:46:30 PM

Elsa is the first Disney woman who has never been involved with a romance plot

You could count Lilo, but she's also too young (don't remember if her sister got one though), and Merida, but she's technically not Disney.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18963: Apr 18th 2020 at 2:07:37 PM

don't remember if her sister got one though

Nani had a bit of a thing with David, but it was just a subplot and they still weren't officially dating by the end of the movie.

amadeussyracuse A Wink's As Good As A Nod To A Blind Bat from Hyrule Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
A Wink's As Good As A Nod To A Blind Bat
#18964: Apr 18th 2020 at 2:18:42 PM

After the Show Yourself sequence, when Elsa is looking at the ice sculptures of elements from Frozen I, how come she destroys a sculpture of Hans but not The Duke Of Weaseltown?

The Duke Of Weaseltown tried to have Elsa killed just like Hans. The Duke's intentions weren't as malevolent as Hans but murder is still murder.

Elsa severed all ties between Arondale and Weaseltown at the end of Frozen I so it's not like she was oblivious to the Duke's actions.

No, Mr. Bunker, "this here" is justice
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#18965: Apr 18th 2020 at 2:20:50 PM

because hans tried to seduce her?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#18966: Apr 18th 2020 at 2:22:53 PM

Given the mess she caused, she might not hold a grudge that big, but Hans tried to seduce her sister, then left her to die, beyond any personal attacks to her. So she might not like the Duke, but really hated Hans.

Wake me up at your own risk.
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18967: Apr 18th 2020 at 2:37:25 PM

The Duke only targeted her, while Hans threatened both of them and especially threatened her sister. I'd like to think Elsa is more likely to carry a grudge against people harming her sister than herself.

Also, the memories are different: the one featuring the Duke shows him dancing, something that made her laugh even when she witnessed it the first time, while the one featuring Hans shows him introducing himself to Anna, something she disapproved of from the start.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#18968: Apr 18th 2020 at 5:18:45 PM

The duke and his guards tried to kill Elsa out of fear of the unknown (heh) and a misguided sense of utilitarianism (we have to kill this deadly witch before she causes a global famine with her eternal winter!). F1 by all means implied that the muggle world had never been openly exposed to magic long enough for the Arendelle public to be shocked at Elsa displaying powers.

Elsa dancing the little jig in F2 implies that she must have reflected back on the events of F1, and realized that the Duke was admittedly responding to the threat she posed the muggle world in a way that other world leaders might also have had he not attended. Prior to Anna ripping her glove off, the Duke also by all means fully respected Elsa's legitimacy as the sovereign of Arendelle. He just thought that he could persuade an inexperienced queen to give more favorable trade concessions to Weselton, as a diplomat should.

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Apr 18th 2020 at 5:28:12 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18969: Apr 18th 2020 at 5:49:01 PM

Well, the Duke said out loud that he wanted to exploit Arendelle's riches, so his motives were definitely more sinister than just "great trade deals".

Prince Hans and the Duke are implied to represent Denmark and Sweden, respectively, and Norway has had tense relationships with both countries in its history.

(Incidentally this is part of the reason why EPCOT has only a Norway pavilion and not a Scandinavia one.)

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 18th 2020 at 5:53:30 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#18970: Apr 18th 2020 at 10:01:23 PM

And in a doylist reason, people asociate hans as the only villian with the duke being a side chararter at best, so the writer probably reflect that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18971: Apr 18th 2020 at 10:09:32 PM

In Anna & Elsa serises, Elsa helped the Duck's country, and in the end Elsa and Duck showed a willingness to conciliate.

I am not sure we can take it as canon or not, but I think Duck is not a unforgivable villain in canon setting.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18974: Apr 18th 2020 at 11:10:41 PM

[up][up] In fact, Donald Duck took part in the Frozen story in Kingdom Hearts III

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#18975: Apr 19th 2020 at 4:22:45 PM

Charles Muntz, or Buddy Pine

I wouldn't consider either of those twist villains.

Muntz is revealed to be evil in his first scene, and we only see Buddy as non evil in the prologue which is essentially backstory.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 19th 2020 at 4:25:52 AM


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