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Frozen (Disney film)

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deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#18901: Apr 10th 2020 at 3:38:45 PM

Kristoff also isn't nearly as popular as Flynn Rider and considering the Fandom Rivalry these films have with Tangled, it only adds to the unpopularity.

Although, Kristoff also has been getting praise for being a very supportive boyfriend so that's...something.

Personally, I never found him particularly interesting so it doesn't bother me that most of the development in the movie went to Elsa and Anna who are far more complex characters.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#18902: Apr 10th 2020 at 8:00:09 PM

Anna's the only character who was done true justice in Frozen 2, honestly, which is depressing.

Kristoff was limited to a collection of awkward proposal gags that contributed nothing to his character, and a song that makes zero sense when paired with the supposed theme of "codependency" in Frozen 2 as well as the fact that he has no real reason to believe he and Anna are growing apart. He has no purpose in the actual story and nothing would've changed if he were left out, except Anna and Elsa's transportation.

Olaf was almost done well. He sure had more depth than in Frozen 1, what with his newfound ability to feel angry and his maturity trials, but it wasn't really taken anywhere meaningful because the anger he feels at Elsa is simply shrugged off by the movie and it's never addressed at the end of the movie, when Olaf should be reaming Elsa out for leaving them behind. But no, all he says is, "Elsa made me feel angry" and Anna says "you have a right to feel angry"...and nothing else happens. It's profoundly dumb for them to introduce that internal conflict without taking it anywhere at all.

As was mentioned many pages ago, Elsa doesn't apologize for a single thing in Frozen 2, except for the fire scene apology. This despite making a promise she couldn't keep, shootng Anna and Olaf away too fast in an ice canoe, and going too far into Ahtohallan despite Anna's direct warning, forcing Anna to believe that she was dead and putting her sister through extreme grief for an entire night. And she sees no reason to be dumping apologies on Anna when they reunite? Bullshit, Elsa is supposed to be apologizing for the little things that don't really matter. At least, that's what I was led to believe from Frozen Fever and Olaf's Frozen Adventure. And these writers didn't even make her say "I'm sorry" for accidentally putting Anna through hell. Probably because they seemed to have rushed the hell out of this ending. Though it almost makes sense that Elsa wouldn't apologize, seeing as the writers also seem to think that Elsa would want to move away from Arendelle, too. They just didn't get her right in this movie.

Elsa has no real trial to overcome that isn't simply magical exertion. It's more of just a journey of "I don't know, so I must find out." There are no lessons learned. There could have been. They certainly set up for Elsa to learn some good lessons, especially in regards to how she treats Anna in the movie. But she just doesn't. She even goes against some lessons she should've learned in the first movie, like the fact that she belongs in Arendelle, obviously, and the fact that she shouldn't be pushing Anna away. For her to apologize to Anna at the end would really help to show that she actually learned at least something she did was wrong. There are some good scenes with her, most notably the shipwreck scene. And of course, "Show Yourself" is the showstopper (despite that godawful "feels like I am home" line). The problem is that this moment relies on being earned due to the events that happened in previous movies, without Elsa having to really do anything more to earn it in this movie, so it doesn't stand very well on its own.

If anything, Elsa should be learning in Ahtohallan that her family means more than anything in the world, more than a voice, or a forest, or spirits, and that she was wrong to be taking so much attention away from them, etc. That's why everyone she loves appeared on the walls of Ahtohallan. At least, that should be why. If Ahtohallan is meant to show her purpose, why else would it show her loved ones? It didn't show her spirits. Or a forest. Or the Northuldra. It showed love. So, it doesn't make sense for Elsa to prefer to hang out in this empty glacier surrounded by the memories of her loved ones, rather than staying in Arendelle WITH those loved ones.

Okey Dokey!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#18903: Apr 10th 2020 at 8:14:18 PM

[up] And the thing is, there's actually a really obvious character arc for Elsa, that would make the whole story make so much more sense, and it's crazy they didn't do. Her character arc should have been coming to terms with her anger and resentment towards her parents.

Edited by megaeliz on Apr 10th 2020 at 11:20:45 AM

yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18904: Apr 11th 2020 at 5:18:46 AM

[up][up]I read a news of interview with Jenifer Lee and Buck[1], it said that:

What would that be like for Elsa? Perhaps this is her purpose in life, to be the keeper of all these memories.

So I guess in their mind, Elsa stayed at Ahtohallan was not only because she loved there, but also it is her job now. She had to work ouside so can only return home at weekend, a very reality design, my father did that before.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18905: Apr 11th 2020 at 6:02:25 AM

[up] OK I can get by this explanation (I mean, any explanation is better than the "just because" we got instead), but why the fruck did not they even allude to it in the movie???

I will keep on considering the the deleted scene of Elsa showing her parents too Anna as the real ending (with but a few tweaks).

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
BrightLight from the Southern Water Tribe. Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#18906: Apr 11th 2020 at 7:30:28 AM

In all honesty, recent Disney animation isn't all that good at emotional coherence, cohesiveness, or maturity.

They only want comedy, music, and the easy way out.

yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18907: Apr 11th 2020 at 7:52:45 AM

[up]They only made sequels in the last two years, maybe we can look forward to raya.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#18908: Apr 11th 2020 at 8:03:39 AM

There was The Rescuers Down Under back in the 80s.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
amadeussyracuse A Wink's As Good As A Nod To A Blind Bat from Hyrule Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
A Wink's As Good As A Nod To A Blind Bat
#18911: Apr 12th 2020 at 11:04:11 AM

According to the running times on the DV Ds, Frozen II is one minute longer that the original Frozen.

I wonder what they would have cut to make the sequel as long as the original

No, Mr. Bunker, "this here" is justice
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18912: Apr 12th 2020 at 1:03:55 PM

Does that count the credits? Because I'm pretty sure the stinger in Frozen 2 is a bit longer than in the first film.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18913: Apr 12th 2020 at 10:49:43 PM

[up][up]I advice you to read the Frozen 2 novel, where many scenes have been proven to make done and cut. However, I dont think those scenes are important enough to influence the quelity of movie.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18914: Apr 13th 2020 at 6:19:03 AM

It occurred to me that we keep saying that the writers focused on the sisters relationship, but actually that's not quite the case in Frozen 2. In Frozen, each sister's arc was indeed focused on the relationship - Anna wanted to reconnect with Elsa and Elsa wanted to protect Anna and learned that this was not the way - but in Frozen 2 only Anna's arc is centred on their relationship. Elsa's is mainly centred on herself, and she rarely even acknowledges Anna apart from telling her to let her do her thing and eventually pushing her away.

So that's why I think that the deleted scene with Elsa showing Anna a memory of their parents would have been a very important step in showing Elsa as less selfish as she appears in this movie, especially in the end.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18915: Apr 13th 2020 at 6:54:38 AM

[up]It is the problem from movie makers, they had different idea of sister's relationship with you.

You'd better to read some interview before the frozen 2 was released, they said the in frozen 2, anna would deal with the problem of codependency of her sister (the general meaning I cannot remeber the exactly words), which means they thought the too close relationship between Elsa and Anna is unhealthy, Anna should learn how to be independent.

While for you, you thought the relationship between sisters was not close enought. So your views are entirely contradict with the movie makers.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18916: Apr 13th 2020 at 7:12:58 AM

That's not entirely my point. I actually have no problem with Anna learning to be less dependent on Elsa. I don't really mind if the sisters end up separated like they are in the film, especially since they keep in touch regularly. It's just the way it was done that really bothers me. And the fact that Elsa does not seem to care about Anna any more after she comes back from Ahtohallan.

I do agree that sometimes the film writers take on a character is wildly different from the fandom's - such as the fact that for instance Fanon loves to see Elsa as an extremely competent queen and Anna as a goofball, while in truth there is little evidence for either.

But as far as their relationship is concerned, I simply find that it was handled far too swiftly in the end of the movie. For instance, I still have not found any satisfactory explanation for why Elsa wants to stay nor why she seems so happy to go back to Ahtohallan in the end.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18917: Apr 13th 2020 at 7:43:19 AM

[up]I dont think Elsa seemed not care about Anna after she came back, she was also tearing (though it was not as obvious as Anna), it is the difference between their personalities.

If they showed reluctantly to leave each other, the ending of movie might be too sad expecially for kids, so the movie makers avoid to show that.

Also, Elsa's happy was not only because she would come to Ahtohallan, like I said before, the abstract meaning of ending scene was larger than its physical meaning. I think you'd better to think about is as Elsa was happy because she finally found a comfortable place

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#18918: Apr 14th 2020 at 6:53:26 AM

Also, Elsa's happy was not only because she would come to Ahtohallan, like I said before, the abstract meaning of ending scene was larger than its physical meaning. I think you'd better to think about is as Elsa was happy because she finally found a comfortable place

Any time I hear an "Elsa feels more at home in Ahtohollan" argument, all I can think of is how heartbroken Anna would feel to hear that. Anna loves Elsa more than anything so for her to hear that Elsa prefers to live away from her would be awful. "Wherever Anna is" is Elsa's real home, and them together ought to be a consistent ending of Frozen. I think that the real Elsa wants to stay with Anna. It simply doesn't make sense that Elsa would prefer the forest and Ahtohllan over her loved ones. Especially considering she has no real function there, as opposed to her royal duties in Arendelle. Her so-called "destiny" is virtually nothing in this movie, because she's totally directionless.

There is literally no purpose, or useful function she has in the forest. The Northuldra are fine, the spirits are immortal, and the forest is safe. The only reason would be to shoot ice into the sky or something. Plenty to do in Arendelle. Plenty of people in Arendelle, and plenty valuable uses of Elsa's skills that stretch beyond just magic. Plus, her entire family is there in Arendelle. All of her friends. Living in Arendelle and visiting the forest is a much more sensible dynamic that would make more sense for Elsa, rather than moving out of her home just to gallop around the woods. Family first, magic second, that's who Elsa is in the first movie and the animated shorts. And the fandom argument that "Elsa can time her visits whenever" falls apart when Elsa didn't even bother to show up for a ceremony to unveil statues of their dead parents together.

Okey Dokey!
yayoyo57 Since: Feb, 2020
#18919: Apr 14th 2020 at 8:20:41 AM

[up]

Any time I hear an "Elsa feels more at home in Ahtohollan" argument, all I can think of is how heartbroken Anna would feel to hear that. Anna loves Elsa more than anything so for her to hear that Elsa prefers to live away from her would be awful. "Wherever Anna is" is Elsa's real home, and them together ought to be a consistent ending of Frozen. I think that the real Elsa wants to stay with Anna. It simply doesn't make sense that Elsa would prefer the forest and Ahtohllan over her loved ones. Especially considering she has no real function there, as opposed to her royal duties in Arendelle. Her so-called "destiny" is virtually nothing in this movie, because she's totally directionless.

I love my parents and my parents love me than anything, but we dont live together, I have my own career to do. Many young people dont want to live with native family now, it is not because they dont love their family, just live seperated is more comfortable for them.

There is literally no purpose, or useful function she has in the forest. The Northuldra are fine, the spirits are immortal, and the forest is safe. The only reason would be to shoot ice into the sky or something.

My dad always want to move to the countryside not for any work just for a larger yard, mandkind is very odd creature, I cant understand him but respect his choice(if he do).

I can undertand the logic of frozen 2 but I admit it need a better way to express.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18920: Apr 14th 2020 at 8:38:48 AM

The problem is that the driving plot of the first film and the shorts was how much the sisters had suffered from not being together during their childhood and youth, and how much they needed to make up for it. With that in mind, a sudden separation with absolutely no explanation can only feel harsh.

I can very much accept that the writers wanted an Aesop about how you don't have to be physically close to someone to love them, but it should have a better justification that "Elsa felt like it". And, sadly, that's how it feels it happens in the movie.

Which is why I'm so hung up over that deleted scene. At least, there was an inkling of an explanation there (Elsa wanted to explore how her powers had evolved), and at least Anna explicitly said she was OK with it.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#18921: Apr 14th 2020 at 9:08:02 AM

I love my parents and my parents love me than anything, but we dont live together, I have my own career to do. Many young people dont want to live with native family now, it is not because they dont love their family, just live seperated is more comfortable for them.

Anna and Elsa aren't normal people. They're not anyone except Anna and Elsa. And they ought to act according to their characters. Anna and Elsa ought to act according to the information previously established by the first movie and the two short films. And all evidence in those installments points to Elsa wanting to stay with Anna. Not leaving her kingdom in favor of a magical forest to do nothing but ride around and... I dunno. Watch trees? Play with fire? Lie in a glacier to look at memories? Elsa has no function or purpose to stay in the forest. It had been totally fine for centuries before she came along. It's a directionless path for her, let alone that it makes no sense.

Elsa should want to stay with the people she loves. That's the point of Frozen. And it was how the first movie ended, and considering Chris and Jen never intended to do anything past Frozen, that was how they originally intended the story to end. With everyone together.

Even if this movie were set in a modern setting, in America or Europe or wherever, the fact is that Anna and Elsa should both want to stay together, living under the same roof.

Also, people (like me) who related to Elsa because she was a single independent woman, introvert with traumas, anxiety and mental problems that can be an useful part of society, a successful and loved leader, feel cheated after Frozen II. Frozen II tells you literally that if you are an introvert, even lifelong preparations for a job of a leader won't help you. You are better off as a hermit far away from anything else to take careof than trees. And any extrovert, even one with no training, would be better in your position. Frozen I says that everybody is valid and there is place for everybody in society. Frozen II says to introverts that you are better off far away from healthy, organized society that has no place for your kind.

And so much for the first movie's progressive message of a queen without a king. That lasted a whole six years in Disneyverse.

Edited by dmcreif on Apr 14th 2020 at 12:21:23 PM

Okey Dokey!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#18922: Apr 14th 2020 at 9:24:03 AM

Speaking of that, does anyone have any ideas for what could be the ending of our rewritten version of the movie?

First Act

  • In this version, the inciting incident is Elsa discovering that her parents were trying find the source of her powers when they died, while wandering the coast of Arendelle
  • She’s not happy. Sure, she has friends and family around her, her kingdom is thriving, and she doesn’t have to worry about trying to hide her power, but she can’t get over a lingering sense of dissatisfaction. And honestly, it’s not really that surprising.
  • She went from being locked in her room to being locked into the role of the perfect Queen (out of fear that people would start rejecting her again) and of the perfect sister since she feels responsible for the their childhood)
  • We show this by reusing the concept of the deleted song “Unmeltable Me”, where Olaf entertains a group of ambassadors, intertwined with Elsa mustering up the courage to start another day as the Queen of Arendelle.
  • The scene starts with Elsa is in her room, reading a book or playing with her powers or gazing out of the window, when Kai knocks on the door to tell her that the ambassadors are coming. She says she'll come along in a minute. Olaf passes by, and cheerfully says he will make them wait, and the song starts.
  • Like "For the first time in forever", it switches between Olaf (and possibly Anna?), being goofy among the ambassadors and Elsa recounting the day she will have, getting dressed for the occasion, discussing seriously with various officials, while expressing her longing for reading a book in her room, having fun with Anna, or wandering in the forest. The song ends as Elsa finally enters the room with the ambassadors.
  • Instead of Elsa singing about the voice, the “Into the Unknown” sequence (with slightly different context specific lyrics) would be a montage establishing that Elsa has been going on long walks around the kingdom when she feels overwhelmed. We can see her revisiting her ice castle, some cool visuals of her running across lakes, etc. She wants to escape the pressures of the of the castle and being the perfect sister, as well as experiment with her expanding powers, but mostly, she just wants to be alone
  • She also has a new power to make underwater tunnels, we see her use a few times too. At the end of the song, she would be exploring the ocean floor and that’s where she finds the wreckage of her parent’s ship.
  • She finds the waterproof box and goes back to up find what’s in it, and this is where she discovers the note and map, but it’s slightly different.
    • (Also the sisters won't know about the curse on the forest. They will remember their mother’s song though)
The end of the Ice Age?

The River found but lost

Magic Source. Elsa's Source?

A way to lift the curse?

  • Since Elsa doesn't know about the enchantment on the forest, she makes the reasonable assumption that the note must be referring to her powers. She thinks that her parents thought of her powers as a curse, and were died trying to "cure" them.
  • This would be devastating, validating all her anger and resentment she's felt towards them over the last few years.
  • At first she doesn't know what to do about this, and tries to hide it from her family, and we get the charades scene, where she's noticeably distracted and nervous.
  • Anna notices that something's wrong, and they have a heart to heart, where Elsa shows Anna the map
  • This is what kicks off the plot to follow in their parent's footsteps. (Maybe they say that they have been invited for some sort of event in a nearby Kingdom as an excuse, for why they are leaving?)
  • I'm also cutting the subplot about the spirits trying to destroy Arendelle, since it's inconsistent with the rules established later in the movie, and doesn’t work with this version anyway.

Second Act:

  • This one would play out more or less similarly to the movie, but this time, the sisters actually have a goal, instead of just kinda wandering aimlessly.
  • They travel North, and discover the enchanted forest, meet the Northuldra, encounter and eventually befriend the wind and fire spirits, etc.
  • We’re also cutting Olaf’s song here. It contributes very little to the plot, and we already had a Olaf song, so we don’t need another one.
  • When they meet the Northuldra and the Arendellian soldiers, they realize that the the note was actually referring to the curse on the forest and not Elsa's powers
  • Since we cut all the stuff with the spirits trying to destroy Arendelle, and there's no reason for them to hurry, we can now put in a new scene where after they discover that the sisters are half Northuldra, there's a celebration, allowing the new characters a chance to breathe
  • This gives us a chance to get to know all the new characters, and develop their relationships to our mains. We can have Anna and Elsa get to know Ryder and Honeymaren, Elsa doing a few party tricks with her powers, maybe a bit of sisterly bonding over a shared heritage, etc. This is also where Kristoff and Rider would go off on their comedic, reindeer B Plot
  • This also gives an opportunity for the Northuldrans to give exposition, and for us to learn a bit more about the mythology
  • Like he mentioned in "The Lore of Frozen 2" video, it's crazy that Altohallan and Northuldra river are completely unconnected, so we're going to have Altohallan be a tributary of the river in the very far north (so the river is fed by a glacial stream.) It's the source of the magic for the forest spirits, and by damming the river, they got cut off. (In this version some water would be flowing through the dam. Enough to keep the forest spirits alive, but not much else.) (Also, to explain why we’re seeing the spirits now, let’s say that Elsa entering the Forest created an infusion of magic reawakening them.)
    • (This also means that we would have to cut the sequence where Elsa tries to cross the Ocean, because as amazing as the sequence is, it doesn't work with the new geography)
  • After the feast, the sisters press northward.
  • I need Kristoff to be separated from the sisters for this to work, so anyone want to come up with some wacky B plot for him?
  • This part of the movie would play out similarly. They go upriver on an ice canoe Elsa sees the ice giants panics, and sends Anna downriver, and accidentally steers into a cave just like the movie.

Third Act:

  • Elsa somehow defeats the giants and keeps going upriver, until she finally finds Altohallan
  • Since Altohallan be a tributary of the river, Elsa would come to a glacier with a small stream running from it, and a crack big enough for a person to enter.
  • Inside the glacier, there would be a Subglacial lake, but it has an eerie blue glow.
  • This is where the battle with the Water horse would take place, serving as the guardian of the lake, and the final obstacle for Elsaz.
  • She would jump in, and she and the water horse would struggle for a bit, but Elsa manages to tame it. This is also where she would realize she can see shadowy figures just beneath her, but she can’t see details and their voices are muffled.
  • She needs to go deeper.
  • She swims back out, and creates the ice tunnels we saw her use at the beginning.
  • We start by showing scenes from Frozen 1, like in the movie, that part was great. Then we Start seeing more painful memories. A memory of her younger self longingly staring out the window at kids playing, as cracks silently start to form in the tunnel behind her.
  • Elsa dives deeper.
  • As in the movie, this is where she finds out that the dam was a trick, as more cracks start to form.
  • Just as she finds out that her grandfather killed the Northuldra leader in cold blood, the tunnel above her gives way, and water comes crashing down. She sends off the ice message to Anna as she does in the original film, and just as the water just hit her, she raises her hands in defense, and cut to a wideshot of the lake freezing over, and the blue light fade to black...

  • Since Elsa froze the entire River over, it cut the enchanted forest from the Magic entirely, creating a ticking clock. Unless the dam is destroyed giving the Forest an infusion of magical energy, the Forest will die.
  • From here Anna’s story would play out pretty much the same, the only real chance being that, after she trips and is about to be crushed by a rock giant, we cut back to Elsa.
  • Elsa froze the wave of water 12 inches before it hit her. She’s trapped under the ice, and is shivering and weak. She tries to melt the ice, but she can’t, since her ability to melt ice is connected to feelings of love, and right now, she feels anything but. She just found out her great grandfather didn’t trust people like her, and relived her traumatic childhood.
  • Suddenly a memory materializes. It’s the scene from Frozen 1 where they say goodbye to their parents, but we get to see a bit more of it this time.

Elsa: Do you have to go?

King: You’ll be fine Elsa

Elsa stands at the foot of the stairs, panicking. She’s never been alone this long, and she’s terrified. Just as her mother is about the walk out the door, she yells

Elsa: Mom Wait!

I’m sorry sweetie, we have to go. There are questions that need answering.

Elsa: but what if something goes wrong while you’re gone?

They won’t. You’ll be fine.

Elsa: but how do you know?

I don’t. But I trust you Elsa. Don’t be afraid of who you you are. You’re exactly the person you are meant to be.

The queen takes off one of Elsa’s gloves, and holds her hand ungloved hand in her own. Elsa tried to flinch away, but she won’t let her.

Your powers... We may not understand them, but I’ve always Believe they were a gift. A rare gift. And so are you Elsa.

  • This gives Elsa the strength to melt the ice, and the water horse is waiting for her.
  • Then we cut back to Anna, and she’s rescued by Kristoff and Swen and just like in the original movie, they break the dam, and magic returns to the forest.
  • I'm not sure what should happen after that though.


Edited by megaeliz on May 1st 2021 at 3:46:33 PM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18923: Apr 14th 2020 at 9:39:07 AM

[up] Not the ending, but since we had been talking about Kristoff being related to the Northuldra, I thought that maybe his B-plot could have been about investigating his potential heritage. I know it crowds the movie a little, but we are not necessarily shooting for something that would have had the exact same length as Frozen 2, right?

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#18924: Apr 14th 2020 at 9:40:47 AM

You know, I think there's a reason for Elsa's personality change in Frozen II. The Elsa we had in the finalized version of Frozen was mostly not Jennifer Lee's creation, but rather, John Lasseter's. Lasseter was the one giving (or even pushing) the ideas about Elsa that made her so popular. You can see it in every interview with Lee, the Lopezes or Lasseter himself from these times, that it's not a secret. There is even a joke that Elsa's famous walk was based on Lasseter's. But the guy who gave us such a great character turned out to be an ugly person and, well, you know what happened next.

And so Jen Lee was left with an Elsa who was not wholly her own. She had to understand these more foreign elements of Elsa she wasn't responsible for creating. I believe what she's said is that her Elsa was scared all the time, and she didn't go much beyond that. And I think that's a reason she wrote an Elsa journal with more alternative ideas than Anna's. Because she was not sure of Elsa the way she was sure of Anna, and she was trying to find the right Elsa.

Another thing that shows that Frozen II was made only because of the first movie's success, and they really had no story planned when announcing it, are the fact that Lee had to subject the characters to Myers-Briggs tests and hire psychologists to explain said characters to them. That's not how you're supposed to approach your own characters. And that's not what you do when you have ideas about a story to tell. That's something you do in hopes of finding data that would help you to find a story to write.

In this infamous test (made in 2015), which obviously determined fate of the sisters, Anna came out as ENFP and Elsa as INFJ. The problem is, Anna's type is very popular, both Kristens (Bell and Anderson-Lopez) are ENFP, while INFJ is not as popular. Jen had a bunch of people around her to consult for writing Anna (including Kristen Bell). But with Elsa, I don't think she had anyone to fall back on. With a big pressure on Elsa's character, she had a lot of work to do. I believe that this personality test was the last straw in decision that Anna would stay in Arendelle but Elsa had to go.

Okey Dokey!
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#18925: Apr 14th 2020 at 9:47:01 AM

My take on this would simply be that they set out to reproduce what worked in the first film (Anna gets the character development, Elsa gets awesome songs and badass uses of her powers), after having decided from the start that it should end up with Anna becoming Queen, for reasons I don't quite understand - maybe as a reward for what she went through in the first film?
Then they realised they had to complete the movie at some point, so they stuck all the scenes they had written together and called it a finished movie.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

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