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What to do about (New crowner swapped in 8/2/12): Nightmare Fuel

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Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#176: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:38:10 AM

So lets get a crowner going with all the options not just single prop that got killed.

The stuff in post 143 mostly and let other people add stuff.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#177: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:38:31 AM

[up][up]The question is what to do with the stuff that's already accumulated. I'm sure we'll get complaints if we zap everything and start over with a new system, but we can't just leave so much random crap lying around.

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AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#178: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:38:58 AM

We should archive it somewhere.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#179: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:44:44 AM

As for wicks... there should be Zero on main pages and only stuff in YMMV.

However that doesn't seem to be the case with this and HONF.... they do not show the red dot at all in any of the entries... this has to go no matter what we do.

edited 24th Jan '12 8:47:01 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#180: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:48:23 AM

It shows up in the subject matter of some actual tropes, mind. It also pops up in potholes, from what I've seen.

edited 24th Jan '12 8:49:24 AM by AceOfScarabs

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#181: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:54:26 AM

Grabbing a Random wick on HONF shows that is not the case...

Absent Aliens 8th example in the lit section.

Get this working as a Red dot and I will be fine with it 100% against cutting it especially with so many Inbounds

edited 24th Jan '12 11:03:21 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#182: Jan 24th 2012 at 11:02:05 AM

It shows up in the subject matter of some actual tropes, mind. It also pops up in potholes, from what I've seen.
The question is whether or not it belongs there. Perhaps sometimes it might be useful to pothole to, but not useful enough to avoid redlinking this for.

I think redlinking the old name is the answer. If it means a lot of potholes are broken links, so be it. Users should have thought of that before potholing to such a frequenty misused subjective in the first place.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#183: Jan 24th 2012 at 11:13:17 AM

Since when does lots of inbounds mean it can't be cut? Rip off the bandaid imo.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#184: Jan 24th 2012 at 11:15:10 AM

Given the crowner down there, were are definitely not simply cutting this unless things radically change.

edited 24th Jan '12 11:15:49 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
MyLittleRaptor Since: Jan, 2012
#185: Jan 24th 2012 at 12:23:43 PM

Hey, I AM willing to work for my fun. Just agree to do the "Sign or Get Zapped" deal and I'll get right to work signing all of my Nightmare Fuel entries.

Routerie Since: Oct, 2011
#186: Jan 24th 2012 at 12:39:37 PM

If we're moving toward the "sign it" idea, that means we're starting to agree it's not a trope and has to leave the main space?

HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#187: Jan 24th 2012 at 12:46:35 PM

Given the crowner down there, were are definitely not simply cutting this unless things radically change.
That's why I was suggesting moving on to another crowner.

EDITED IN: Might it be an idea to adjust the thread name accordingly?

edited 24th Jan '12 12:47:19 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Bluesunnyday Big Scientist from The Blue Lagoon Since: Apr, 2011
Big Scientist
#188: Jan 24th 2012 at 1:20:27 PM

I'm rather glad to see that the option to remove Nightmare Fuel is being Nay'd by many, many people. Also, I don't think we should rename. We seem to rename every trope that doesn't smack you in the face with what it does.

Blue Pacific, signing off...
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#189: Jan 24th 2012 at 2:30:21 PM

[up][up][up]Pretty much. It would end up as a Just for Fun page.

edited 24th Jan '12 2:31:11 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#190: Jan 24th 2012 at 2:38:21 PM

We seem to rename every trope that doesn't smack you in the face with what it does.
But in this case, that's not the only reason for renaming it. It's also that the current name is very strongly associated with the trope's misuse, while a new name might give it a fresh chance.

Anyway, I'm going to holler for closing the crowner, because it's obviously not going to change in favour of cutting this. Now it's time to discuss what the next crowner should be.

edited 24th Jan '12 2:41:09 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Bluesunnyday Big Scientist from The Blue Lagoon Since: Apr, 2011
Big Scientist
#191: Jan 24th 2012 at 2:42:31 PM

[up]

Isn't it already named Accidential Nightmare Fuel? That's what it was when I last checked.

Blue Pacific, signing off...
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#192: Jan 24th 2012 at 2:44:29 PM

No, it's still Nightmare Fuel. The custom title system was used so that whenever you type NightmareFuel, it comes out Nightmare Fuel. And that "rename" doesn't seem to have fixed anything.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#193: Jan 24th 2012 at 2:45:08 PM

Calling crowner.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#194: Jan 24th 2012 at 3:05:57 PM

Here are our options, as I understand them:

  • Do nothing
  • Merge High Octane Nightmare Fuel and Nightmare Fuel and discard the "accidental" requirement, making this essentially Crowning Moment Of Horror.
  • Make tropers sign all entries (not necessarily incompatible with other options).
  • Rename to something potentially less troublesome (not necessarily incompatible with other options).
    • If renamed, cut and lock the current pages to prevent their misuse. (Incompatible with fake redlinking.)
    • if renamed, redirect the current pages to the new page(s). (Not necessarily incompatible with other options)
  • Fake redlink the main namespaced Nightmare Fuel pages to discourage its use on main pages (not necessarily incompatible with other options).
  • Move Nightmare Fuel pages (or renamed and/or merged page) to the Sugar Wiki (not necessarily incompatible with other options).

Did I miss any?

edited 24th Jan '12 3:19:08 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Bluesunnyday Big Scientist from The Blue Lagoon Since: Apr, 2011
Big Scientist
#195: Jan 24th 2012 at 3:06:59 PM

[up]

Why would we move NIGHTMARE FUEL to the Sugar Wiki? Wouldn't this be better suited for the Darth Wiki, if we even move it at all?

Blue Pacific, signing off...
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#196: Jan 24th 2012 at 3:07:18 PM

Because it's essentially gushing, and that's what Sugar Wiki is for. Darth Wiki is for complaining, which this most definitely is not.

edited 24th Jan '12 3:12:43 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
ChaoticNovelist Since: Jun, 2010
#197: Jan 24th 2012 at 7:18:32 PM

I could get behind a move and crowming moment of Horror. That simplfies the article and allows for gushing.

Routerie Since: Oct, 2011
#198: Jan 24th 2012 at 7:59:18 PM

So long as we think either page is worth saving, we should opposing merging them. I did, strongly. But if you see merging them as "Scary Moments" as a stealthy way to cut both of them, you should support the merge, as I do now.

FinalStarman from Clinton, Massachusetts Since: Nov, 2011
#199: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:00:24 PM

I don't care what the new page is called, but the two Nightmare Fuels should definitely be merged. It's so difficult to draw the line between the two tropes. For instance, Zero Two is obviously supposed to be scary (High Octane Nightmare Fuel), but it appears in a Kirby game, which is mostly Sugar Bowl stuff. Would that make it Accidental Nightmare Fuel?

Another example is the horrifying monsters in Dark Passage unimportant fanwank stuff

in Spyro The Dragon, but the game is for players of all ages. Would that still be High Octane Nightmare Fuel? The voracious tree/veggie things in Misty Bog would be a straighter Accidental Nightmare Fuel example considering the level itself is not meant to be particularly terrifying, but due to doubts on the above and/or laziness, both examples are lumped together on the Accidental Nightmare Fuel page.

In general, I'm not sure if kids' works can have High Octane Nightmare Fuel and I'm not sure where to draw the line of they can. Trying to pick them apart after so much Trope Decay and Shoehorned Examples is very difficult for me to the point of futility, so I think the pages should just be combined into one. Maybe a rename would then be necessary to get people to stop using the old definitions.

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#200: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:03:24 PM

I support a merge but not a total Rename. Call both of them Nightmare Fuel and treat them the same way we treat the moments and Tear Jerker. Why do we need to do another snowclone when Nightmare Fuel is already being used as a Moment trope?

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

SingleProposition: NightmareFuel
12th Jan '12 4:22:56 PM

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Vote up for yes, down for no.

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