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What to do about (New crowner swapped in 8/2/12): Nightmare Fuel

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ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#151: Jan 23rd 2012 at 3:39:07 PM

I think the best solution proposed so far is to merge the two pages, make it Scary Moments, and treat it like the other Moments reactions pages. People do a relatively decent job of not misusing those or sticking them on main pages, it keeps the "keep this at all costs" folks happy, and it's pretty much what it's used for now, anyway.

Nightmare Fuel (in the form of both ANF and HONF), no matter how cute the name is (I personally love it) has to be redlinked. It's too ingrained in troper culture to work as a definition page or redirect. Misuse would just continue to pile up.

Personally, I have seen these two tropes in the TRS at least a dozen times, starting within weeks of the TRS first getting off the ground. Every attempt to clean them, every attempt to fix the definitions, even the attempt to rename them have all failed. It just keeps coming back here.

Something needs to be done that doesn't involve a half dozen tropers working their asses off every few months to keep a non-trope clean just because "it's fun."

edited 23rd Jan '12 3:40:49 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#152: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:18:20 PM

Cutting this is not the answer. If we merely nuke anything we don't want to put the work into making better then we will end up with nothing left on this site. Are we really so lazy that we refuse to save something that is both valuble, fun, and important to this wiki.

Cutting TT was one thing, I wont stand for this.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#153: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:45:35 PM

Yeah, I don't want to see Nightmare Fuel go either, but I do think we need some stricter limits for what gets put up there beyond "someone, somewhere might be scared by this". Only problem is enforcing that. But yeah, totally against cutting it.

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LMage Since: May, 2011
#154: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:47:27 PM

Can we expand the reasons against? Right now it seems like the only reason to vote "no" would be becaue we are not sure what to do after, rather then a disagreement with the actual idea.

MyLittleRaptor Since: Jan, 2012
#155: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:49:40 PM

Why don't we just prune the Accidental Nightmare Fuel pages to include only wide-spread examples instead of getting rid of it altogether?

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#156: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:54:18 PM

I said Sugar Wiki because technically you are gushing about a work that is scareing the living crap out of you.

Now this makes sense. But are all ANF and HONF examples "gushing"? The dedicated Nightmare Fuel pages for individual works might be, but some of the other examples are less gushy than, "OMG WHY"

Do not obey in advance.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#157: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:59:16 PM

someone, somewhere might be scared by this

How about make it so that each example must be signed by at least one troper, or a link to a source proving that people have been scared by it? That way, the examples are restricted to things people have actually been scared by.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#158: Jan 23rd 2012 at 8:59:51 PM

I vote against the pruning of these pages, they are part of the culture of this site and purging them would be like a lobotomy.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#159: Jan 23rd 2012 at 9:03:57 PM

[up][up]Requiring signatures and limiting them to one per troper would probably help a lot; that way people will be required to pick the one scariest thing for a given work rather than listing everything. Then once something is up, other people could just add their signatures to the end of it rather than making a whole new entry. I don't think that requiring links would work; I have no doubt that there are legitimately scary stuff out there that you wouldn't be able to find a link for.

It works well enough for Dethroning Moment of Suck. Case in point, I think those pages are way more worthless than Nightmare Fuel. If we can keep pages of complaining, I see no reason to get rid of Nightmare Fuel.

edited 23rd Jan '12 9:07:35 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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LMage Since: May, 2011
#160: Jan 23rd 2012 at 9:09:39 PM

[up]

If we run it like we do the Fan Fic Recs pages (zaping everything that dosen't have a sig and empahises that theses are opnions) I think it would make everyone happy.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#162: Jan 23rd 2012 at 9:11:48 PM

Exactly, I think requiring a name will keep people from tossing stuff out there and make them actually think about what moments they want to post.

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MegaJ Since: Oct, 2009
#163: Jan 23rd 2012 at 11:00:30 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up] (a lot of arrows...) Agreed. Reading this page allowed me to see there's not much of a point to having seperate Nightmare Fuel / High Octane Nightmare Fuel pages. I want Nightmare Fuel to still say as a definition page since it's used throughout the wiki. Just say "No examples please" and get rid of the "accidental."

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#164: Jan 24th 2012 at 3:50:42 AM

I agree with L Mage and Teeth on this matter, having signed examples would work well for this.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#165: Jan 24th 2012 at 5:03:59 AM

Many pages back, I asked for someone to explain to me how this is even a trope. I have yet to hear a good argument. Cutting this page wouldn't be lazy, it would be trimming unnecessary fat and making this Wiki better.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
MyLittleRaptor Since: Jan, 2012
#166: Jan 24th 2012 at 5:21:14 AM

It's a trope because it explains why certain aspects of a work are frightening. If scary shit happens in a movie/TV show/whatever, then what else are we supposed to do express? It seems kind of...er, lacking not to have a section dedicated to scares in horror movies. Seriously, if you're going to prune Nightmare Fuel, then you might as well get rid of everything that doesn't go on the Main page of articles. That would YMMY, Crowning Moments, Trivia, Laconic, and many more things. This is supposed to be a fun site. Not just an informative one. If you want just informative, then go to Wikipedia.

As far as I'm concerned, this site is getting way too fussy lately. You're on a slippery slope, and if you slide down it too far...well, good luck maintaing a healthy number of tropers. All I know is if I ever feel that this site has lost the light-hearted and fun feel it is supposed to have, I'm gone.

edited 24th Jan '12 12:20:56 PM by MyLittleRaptor

AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#167: Jan 24th 2012 at 6:54:07 AM

My Little Raptor took the words right out of my keyboard. YMMV Reactions like Nightmare Fuel are all part of the fun of TV Tropes. If I wanted a dry wiki, I'd have gone to The Other Wiki.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#168: Jan 24th 2012 at 7:01:34 AM

Accidental Nightmare Fuel (in the form of both ANF and HONF), no matter how cute the name is (I personally love it) has to be redlinked.

13k inbounds.... no way this can be redlinked. Redirected to HONF / Scary Moments yes. (I personally like the name High Octane Nightmare Fuel for Really scary moments)

And really it IS a trope the way its written I mean Unintentional Nightmare Fuel type thing not the misuse.

And somone said that we dont need Scary Moments because horror films would have too many of them.... well should we ban all action films from Awesome moments or comedies from Funny Moments? God no, Seriously its part of the way the mediums work and its a good Sugar Wiki listing. (one that I read all the time) Its not something that can be linked on the main site so...

edited 24th Jan '12 7:04:22 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#169: Jan 24th 2012 at 7:26:11 AM

It is not a trope. It is an Audience Reaction. I don't know how people can still not get the difference.

I love how you guys love to go on about how fun it is, but no one volunteers to spend the man hours cleaning the pages and combing through the wicks. You want your fun, and you want someone else to do the work so you can have it.

Sure, it has a lot of inbounds. But if it's still around, it will continue to get used, no matter what it's redirected to. We can make it a "fake" redlink, as suggested before. "Redlinked" does not necessarily mean "cut." Very few people are going to actually notice if we redefine it or rename it, just like they didn't notice the last couple times we redefined it or the last time we renamed it.

edited 24th Jan '12 7:27:16 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#170: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:22:52 AM

[up]

By this logic we should red-link CMOA to, since judjment on what is awesome is also a audience reaction.

And we -are- willing to do the work, we have been sugesting solutions all of which you have ignored.

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#171: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:34:04 AM

Sure, let's redlink something that isn't causing problems. Yeah, that's exactly the logical conclusion to draw from that.

My suggestion is to treat it exactly the same as Awesome Moments and stop pretending it's a trope and stop the headache of trying to keep ANF and HONF separate. Believe me, I have spent far too many hours of my life cleaning up the Nightmare Fuel pages, only to see them become a natter-y mess full of bad examples less than a month later.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#172: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:34:15 AM

We can work our Wiki Magic no problem. I did it when I originally manually wrote School Swimsuit, which suddenly appeared with indices and all, and was merely subject to some refining afterwards.

I'm all for the Signed Entries or Get Zapped approach that was proposed.

edited 24th Jan '12 8:35:24 AM by AceOfScarabs

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#173: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:36:05 AM

Sorry, but launching a new trope and cleaning an old, extremely deep-rooted page like this are two very different beasts. I don't think you realize how much work is involved.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#174: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:37:46 AM

I personally don't think that changing it into an audience reaction warrants a name change. Isn't it already treated like MOA, MOF, MOH? Why change the name? We have Tear Jerker which still fullfills the same niches as the Moment tropes without having a similar name. I agree with the merge though. There's little to no enforcement in the differences between Accidental Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel so just call them both Nightmare Fuel and treat them the same as the moments and Tear Jerker.

edited 24th Jan '12 8:38:28 AM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#175: Jan 24th 2012 at 8:38:06 AM

I'm not the only troper around who would use Wiki Magic, mind. TV Tropes is a constantly growing beast, and we have many tropers to do the work.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!

SingleProposition: NightmareFuel
12th Jan '12 4:22:56 PM

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Vote up for yes, down for no.

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