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What to do about (New crowner swapped in 8/2/12): Nightmare Fuel

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Treblain Not An Avatar Since: Nov, 2012
Not An Avatar
#76: Jan 3rd 2012 at 10:40:14 PM

One would assume that kids' shows are rarely intended to give kids nightmares. Hence, any nightmare-fueling instances in non-horror media targeted for kids are accidental or unintentional.

I know, I don't like it either. That's why we've had so much trouble with it, beyond the basic subjectivity.

We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#77: Jan 3rd 2012 at 11:14:35 PM

@Hidden Faced Matt. I'm pretty sure, no, it didn't.

You forget that pretty much everything you've been proposing to fix it and keep the tropes, has actually been done before. The misuse is attached to the name, from what I can tell, and as long as 'Nightmare Fuel' remains in the name, the misuse will continue. Renaming away from Nightmare Fuel might give things a new start, though personally I don't think this is worth saving.

edited 3rd Jan '12 11:15:57 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#78: Jan 4th 2012 at 5:44:38 AM

Cut it. Most of the arguments I've seen in this thread and others amount to "But I like it!" Hey, I like being nude outside, but society still frowns on it, and I'd still get fined for it.

This trope has always been a mess despite repeated and significant attempts to fix it. I don't see us being able to change that. Cut it.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#79: Jan 4th 2012 at 5:50:12 AM

Well I was playing Dragon Quest VI last night and a person flat out used "Nightmare Fuel" by name to mean High Octane Nightmare Fuel as he was freaked out by a Anamorphic Dino with an axe. [1]

@Hidden Faced Matt.

No it didn't... its just where the accidental mostly occurs with puppets and other things coming out Off-Model and horrifying. Like the page image.

edited 4th Jan '12 5:50:56 AM by Raso

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#80: Jan 4th 2012 at 7:47:10 AM

Renaming away from Nightmare Fuel might give things a new start, though personally I don't think this is worth saving.
Actually, what I was suggesting was scrapping this trope in its current form (and of course, redlinking the current name such that crosswicked examples are also scrapped) and if we still want to document things that are accidentally creepy, we can create a new trope for it with a new name and new examples, so as to minimize spillover of misuse.

HONF arguably might not be worth saving either, but doesn't have all of ANF's problems, so I figure discussion of what to do with HONF should be saved for when we're done with ANF.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Wheezy @TheCSJones on everything else. from West Philadelphia, but not born or raised. (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
@TheCSJones on everything else.
#81: Jan 4th 2012 at 8:48:13 AM

From the other thread:

Since no one can agree on intentional and just what fits in what:'

Accidental Nightmare Fuel: Rename to just plain old Nightmare Fuel and just leave the definition since it's a Trope Of Legend. No examples.

Move all examples to High Octane Nightmare Fuel, rename that to Crowning Moment Of Scary.

DONE.

Why aren't we doing this, or even considering it?

edited 4th Jan '12 8:49:09 AM by Wheezy

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NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#82: Jan 4th 2012 at 2:01:26 PM

Because HONF isn't a trope and changing the name back to Nightmare Fuel is pointless, since it being a problem was why it was changed in the first place. I think we should have a crowner for what to do about this.

edited 4th Jan '12 2:01:40 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#83: Jan 4th 2012 at 2:02:54 PM

Seconding request for a crowner. There are now a lot of options to consider.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#84: Jan 6th 2012 at 5:57:50 AM

Bump...

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#85: Jan 6th 2012 at 12:40:31 PM

If you want the mods to add crowner you'll have to Holler at them, silly.

But I don't know if it would be wise for a crowner to be added after only four pages of disscussion for something big like this.

But I support moving it off-site. It really dosen't have any thing to do with our site's mission and fixing it just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

edited 6th Jan '12 12:40:58 PM by DrStarky

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#86: Jan 7th 2012 at 8:13:48 PM

[up] I tend to be a little hesitant to holler at the mods for stuff like that, but now that you mention it I may as well.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#87: Jan 7th 2012 at 8:24:17 PM

Any registered user can create a crowner (tho there is some etiquette for that, which varies by crowner type). It's hooking it to the thread that you need mod powers for.

edited 7th Jan '12 8:35:59 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#88: Jan 8th 2012 at 1:48:14 AM

Basically leave as is, rename, cut, move to Just for Fun, and merge are on the table for both, separately. Perhaps we should have a crowner for each one separately otherwise we are going to have way too many options, if we have a different entry for each possible combination.

edited 8th Jan '12 1:49:34 AM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#89: Jan 8th 2012 at 3:25:39 AM

i'd prefer a merge of some sort to an outright cut. But what to merge with, that is the question.

Do not obey in advance.
Routerie Since: Oct, 2011
#90: Jan 8th 2012 at 3:48:01 AM

I don't understand the "merge" option. Merge with what? What's close to this?

Or do you mean "cut and redirect to"?

NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#91: Jan 8th 2012 at 5:16:28 AM

I don't know, some people are saying merge the two Nightmare fuel options. Which I think is dumb because there's a reason they were split to begin with, but whatever. Personally I think if you want to keep the pages, Accidental Nightmare Fuel has to be renamed and maybe red-linked so it's disconnected from old misuse, and High Octane Nightmare Fuel has to either be turned into a 'Crowning moment of scary' thing or Just for Fun or otherwise moved to Sugar Wiki.

edited 8th Jan '12 5:17:07 AM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#92: Jan 8th 2012 at 4:07:35 PM

Personally I think if you want to keep the pages, Accidental Nightmare Fuel has to be renamed and maybe red-linked so it's disconnected from old misuse, and High Octane Nightmare Fuel has to either be turned into a 'Crowning moment of scary' thing or Just for Fun or otherwise moved to Sugar Wiki.
Agreed on each point.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
MegaJ Since: Oct, 2009
#93: Jan 8th 2012 at 11:51:24 PM

[up][up]I want Nightmare Fuel to stay as just an example-less definition page since it's been here so long. Otherwise, yes. Move all the examples on Nightmare Fuel and HONF to Scary Moments.

edited 8th Jan '12 11:52:34 PM by MegaJ

Routerie Since: Oct, 2011
#94: Jan 8th 2012 at 11:53:21 PM

[up][up][up]I proposed that in March, but that thread somehow turned into a rename discussion for Nightmare Fuel, which ended in the custom titling we have today but no change for HONF...

[up]No. Keep the examples on their own page, or delete them. A section for gushing about effective horror does not need examples critiquing non-horror for scaring viewers.

edited 8th Jan '12 11:55:17 PM by Routerie

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#96: Jan 9th 2012 at 3:00:26 AM

Um, no.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#98: Jan 9th 2012 at 7:32:51 AM

[up][up][up] That's kind of redundant, since scariness is subjective by its very nature.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Martello Hammer of the Pervs from Black River, NY Since: Jan, 2001
Hammer of the Pervs
#99: Jan 9th 2012 at 7:51:18 AM

Why do we even have this? Things that are scary is People Sit On Chairs. Ankle Drag is a trope. Scary Things isn't.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#100: Jan 9th 2012 at 8:25:09 AM

Martello has a point. Maybe if we get rid of Nightmare fuel, people will start making more specific horror and scary tropes rather than just lumping everything into one big pile.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

SingleProposition: NightmareFuel
12th Jan '12 4:22:56 PM

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