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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#22826: Apr 3rd 2018 at 10:26:55 AM

Yep. From experience, people don’t “overcome” temptations so much as they learn how to deal with them or keep them safely suppressed. With practice they diminish but it’s never “one moment marks never ever forever now.”

edited 3rd Apr '18 10:27:29 AM by Tuckerscreator

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#22827: Apr 3rd 2018 at 10:29:35 AM

In addition, Luke's spent over a decade solely devoting his life to a tradition that prides maintaining control of his emotions

So did his father, and from a far younger age. How did that work out for him?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#22828: Apr 3rd 2018 at 10:30:20 AM

I also got annoyed when Rey outlined his story in ROTJ, how he knew there was good in Vader and managed to redeem him. Now THAT is a fan fiction trope, where characters in the story behave as though they've watched the Star Wars movies rather than actually being a part of the Star Wars universe.

Late response, but in Rey's defense one of her key character traits is that she's an Ascended Fangirl. It's not that hard to believe that she followed the story of the OT.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#22829: Apr 3rd 2018 at 10:30:32 AM

On the flip side, I’ll totally agree with the ST being far too reliant on Diabolus ex Machina, and Luke’s incident with Kylo is a great example.

The thing that bugs me isn’t that Luke is somehow out of character, because as noted he isn’t. It’s that while the first time he nearly did he wrong thing but was strong enough to stop himself, his strength is what saved the galaxy, the second time his strength and wisdom - demonstrably more than he had before - doesn’t matter because that split second already doomed the galaxy anyway.

It’s mean spirited in a way this series doesn’t usually get. But then, so is a lot of what happened in ST’s backstory. Or even its present, really.

edited 3rd Apr '18 10:33:24 AM by KnownUnknown

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#22830: Apr 3rd 2018 at 10:40:39 AM

[up]I agree, that the ST backstory is pretty dark. It's like a Dark-Alternate Universe or something.

Then again, the OT backstory is pretty dark too.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#22831: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:10:34 AM

[up]x4 Anakin lacked moral fibre in a way Luke did not.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#22832: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:15:12 AM

Less than a week before his fall to the dark side, Anakin was insisting on going back to help “expendable” clone troopers being overwhelmed in battle. And his fall was motivated by trying to save someone from death. He had a strong moral fiber but poor sense of pragmatism.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:15:31 AM by Tuckerscreator

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#22833: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:49:52 AM

[up][up] Right, so we've established that years of discipline won't be enough to completely shield you from temptation when the time comes - what matters is the circumstances, and what kind of person you are in your heart.

And Luke has already proved himself to be the kind of person who would momentarily consider striking someone down to protect the people he cares about when he's in a heightened emotional state.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#22834: Apr 3rd 2018 at 12:27:05 PM

Luke should not have been in a heightened emotional state. He had suspicions about Ben, so he should have been prepared bad things, if maybe not as much as he saw. That is miles different from being in the midst of combat. There are physiological changes induced when you are fighting for your life for at least several minutes, especially fight-or-flight reaction, that he would not have been undergoing when he was looking over Ben.

Also, Anakin's shown throughout the PT that he simply has no self-control whereas Luke, with significantly less experience as a Jedi had more.

But again, I wouldn't have this massive aversion to Luke being derailed if they did something with it. A single moment of weakness (albeit one that infuriatingly destroys everything he accomplished in the OT but whatever) is a hard sell but they screwed the pooch. They did nothing with it - and they missed a fantastic chance to make Rey a Contrasting Sequel Protagonist while they were at it.

edited 3rd Apr '18 12:28:24 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#22835: Apr 3rd 2018 at 2:26:57 PM

Could've done without the Reylo, but still pretty cool.

My various fanfics.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#22836: Apr 3rd 2018 at 3:11:32 PM

[up][up] Well, he was in one, and he wasn't remotely prepared. This was his nephew we're talking about - someone he loved and had known since birth. He probably just thought young Ben was going through a rough patch that he could use his wisdom to guide him out of. He wasn't prepared for "no, he's going to be Hitler."

I don't know what they'd have to do to have you consider it "doing something with it," though, considering that they made it effectively the impetus for both Kylo Ren's fall and Luke's self-imposed exile, as well as the center of many of the film's themes about uncertainty, letting go of the past, and the fallibility of the self.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
TempestKnight Tempest Knight from Toronto Since: Dec, 2014
#22837: Apr 3rd 2018 at 5:58:21 PM

https://youtu.be/ypSDDAW-F10

So the film's most divisive elements are the ones Rain Johnson is most proud of.

Okay...he's allowed to have his opinions but at what point does it go from defiance to arrogance? He's under the impression that the film's critics are only a Vocal Minority.

The numbers don't lie. The RT approval rating is down to 47%.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#22838: Apr 3rd 2018 at 6:38:12 PM

I have never seen RT audience approval ratings ever be more accurate than the main critical one. Even in regards to movies I actually do think the majority of critics got it wrong, like Star Trek Into Darkness or Jurassic World.

edited 3rd Apr '18 9:20:41 PM by Tuckerscreator

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#22839: Apr 3rd 2018 at 7:49:56 PM

[up][up] The audience score is mostly meaningless anyways. They only represent a fraction of a handful who watched the film.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TempestKnight Tempest Knight from Toronto Since: Dec, 2014
#22840: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:13:12 PM

I contest that. As far as I'm concerned, it's at the least representative of how people regard the film overall.

Besides, I have yet to find a better alternative. Do you have a way of finding a general audience score that's better than an official source?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#22841: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:21:17 PM

Yeah, I feel like accusing Johnson of arrogance just because he dares not to agree with the people who think he's awful is rather hypocritical.

edited 3rd Apr '18 8:23:36 PM by KnownUnknown

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#22842: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:22:43 PM

It has significantly better audience scores on other sites, too.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#22843: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:23:46 PM

Keep in mind that Rotten Tomatoes only brings up what audiences think of a movie, not actual critics.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#22844: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:26:37 PM

[up][up][up][up] That's borderline arrogant ignorance you know...and you're forgetting about IMDB, Metacritic, Cinema Scope and other sites as well.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#22845: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:27:04 PM

And is also a balance of Like / Dislike, not a an average score of quality. Approx. 50% means people are almost perfectly split.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#22846: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:29:26 PM

[up][up][up] That's not true, Rotten Tomatoes shows aggregate scores from both professional critics and users. The critic score for TLJ is 91% whereas the audience score is 47%. But the user score isn't automatically the most accurate metric of quality given all the ways it can be skewed.

edited 3rd Apr '18 8:30:46 PM by TommyFresh

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#22847: Apr 3rd 2018 at 8:32:11 PM

[up] Exactly my point. And that's what I'm disliking from fans who take the audience score as the true one and disregard the professional score.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#22848: Apr 4th 2018 at 5:13:06 AM

[up] So we're talking audience scores, right? Well in any case, regardless of what you think, I found it amusing that someone tried to use Black Panther's 79% audience score on RT as a justification for TLJ's low score on the YMMV page... never mind the fact that Black Panther's RT score is still 32% higher than TLJ's assuming both were hit by the trolls.

And quite frankly, the fact that news media bring that little reception trivia up time and time again is truthfully only convincing me that there is a legitimate point made by the negative critics and that many folks are afraid to see what is supposed to be a critically acclaimed movie of a long running franchise end up Deader Than Disco.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#22849: Apr 4th 2018 at 5:25:58 AM

[up]It's not "supposed" to be a critically acclaimed movie, it is a critically acclaimed movie.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#22850: Apr 4th 2018 at 5:41:52 AM

[up][up] That's a very arrogant and dismissive assumption, especially for those who liked it.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.

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