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Rename?: Eastern Animation

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Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#1: Dec 13th 2011 at 7:54:18 AM

Eastern Animation is an index for mostly anything that isn't Western Animation or from East Asia. However, it doesn't specify what it means by "eastern". There's the Middle East, eastern European countries and east Asia.The index also includes continents like South America and Africa which are definintely not from the east. I think the index should be renamed so those two continents and other countries could fit at least.

edited 13th Dec '11 9:56:03 AM by Oreochan

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#2: Dec 13th 2011 at 9:42:54 AM

We need more than a rename of this. We need to rename and reorganize all the animation categories. Either that or just stick it all under Animation.

edited 13th Dec '11 9:50:49 AM by Auxdarastrix

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3: Dec 13th 2011 at 10:09:30 AM

This definitely needs changing.

[up]I can see the appeal of this scheme, but I think that's too many categories. I'd go with:

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#4: Dec 13th 2011 at 10:15:54 AM

[up] I agree with that layout mostly.

[up][up]Korean Animation already exists in Han-guk Manhwa Aenimeisyeon (however shows like Freezing are Anime even though its done by a Korean Artist the Manga and Anime were produced in Japan.)

edited 13th Dec '11 10:17:20 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#5: Dec 13th 2011 at 10:25:14 AM

One of the reasons I started this thread was because of another thread I started in Wiki talk about whether Eastern Animation should get it's own namespace or not. Since some Eastern Animation shows like Black Cat Detective are being lumped in Western Animation's index. Also if we are going to split this geographically, shouldn't South American animation be in Western Animation? I mean it is in the Western hemisphere like the US and Canada.

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#6: Dec 13th 2011 at 11:45:49 AM

Opposed to a rename, this fuss in unnecessary. Africa is in the East, and so is Russia. Where do you think the term "Middle East" comes from.

South American, Caribbean and Central American works and everything between them and Western Europe should go under Western Animation, as that is all the west. If something is in the "wrong" spot move it.(personally I'd just call them all cartoons and call it day or for you cringing people call them all "animation").

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#7: Dec 13th 2011 at 12:15:58 PM

Africa is in the East

What map are you looking at?

And the Middle East isn't in Africa.

ArtemisStrong Wizard/Father of Tom from The Mended Drum Since: Jun, 2011
Wizard/Father of Tom
#8: Dec 13th 2011 at 2:40:26 PM

Egypt is in Africa, but it is also the cradle of Western Civilization—along with Greece and Rome, of course. Do we mean "Western" as in culture (in which case Anime would actually be a subcategory of Western Animation, due to them widely adopting Western culture), or "western" as in geography?

I personally think it makes sense just to break things up by genre and format, like {{Children's Series}}, Animated Feature, Anime, etc.

Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#9: Dec 13th 2011 at 4:59:09 PM

The middle East is East Europe(Turkey), West Asia(Iraq, Quatar) and East Africa(Sudan, Egypt, Ethiopia), so West of Libya? That's half the continent firmly Eastern. I don't see how African cartoons wouldn't fall into Eastern or Western Animation.

If anyone else is in favor of lumping our animation categories I'd rather do that.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
20LogRoot10 Since: Aug, 2011
#10: Dec 13th 2011 at 5:56:40 PM

"Eastern Animation" is simply a catchall and shouldn't pretend to be anything else.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
Azek Since: Oct, 2010
#11: Dec 13th 2011 at 7:17:26 PM

Eventually, i am going to move Russian/Soviet animation to it's own index. Just saying.

20LogRoot10 Since: Aug, 2011
#12: Dec 13th 2011 at 7:48:00 PM

[up]Will that have an impact on all the Eastern Animation folders on the wiki?

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#13: Dec 13th 2011 at 9:08:07 PM

[up][up][up]And about as reasonable a name as "Oriental." Seriously, just name it Other Animation and admit it isn't a natural category.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#14: Dec 14th 2011 at 5:07:13 AM

Yeah, I don't see any reason at all to group Africa in the same category as Russia, Russia in the same category as India, or Australia in the same category as Brazil, if we are going to pretend this is organized by some sort of common cultural framework.

"Other Animation" bothers me because it basically places most of the world's cultures under the heading of "The Other" and that has Unfortunate Implications.

Perhaps we can approach this as a Super-Trope, Sub-Trope thing.

The Super-Trope (well, medium, but you get my drift) is Animation. EVERYTHING (even Anime) falls under Animation.

Within Animation there can be various "subtropes" for categories that have a particularly high number of examples on TV Tropes. So Anime or Western Animation can still remain categories with their own distinct indices and tropes listsa and all that, but only as a subcategory withing Animation.

PS: I took a closer look at what we have on the Eastern Animation index and how it is organized. Here is my new proposal.

If we get more Latin American, African, etc examples, we can have seperate indices for them, but for now just list them directly under Animated Shows.

I think this approach would require the least amount of effort to change things.

PS: Also, cut Eastern Animation Tropes. None of those trope are exclusive or even almost entirely associate with "Eastern Animation" and "Eastern Animation" isn't a real cultural or commercial category anyway.

edited 14th Dec '11 9:02:35 AM by Auxdarastrix

LouieW Loser from Babycowland Since: Aug, 2009
Loser
#15: Dec 14th 2011 at 1:30:40 PM

There is now a page action crowner for these indexes here. Feel free to add options as you see fit.

I agree that using Eastern Animation as a miscellaneous "other" category is problematic since it means that animated series from countries which are not in the "East" end up on that index. I think you could make the argument that the whole "East"/"West" division is confusing and that it is best to just have separate animation pages for different regions/countries, but I guess the Western Animation index is probably too entrenched for that to be a feasible option at this point.

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#16: Dec 14th 2011 at 3:03:44 PM

[up][up]Yeah, you're right about Other probably having Unfortunate Implications. Any lumping scheme would. Supercategory/Subcategory sounds like the best route.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#17: Dec 19th 2011 at 1:59:29 PM

The "reorganize" option is now 9 points in the green. May as well go with it.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#18: Dec 19th 2011 at 4:21:11 PM

I've created Eastern European Animation and Asian Animation. I turned Eastern Animation into a redirect to Animated Shows, since that page now lists both the categories which used to form Eastern Animation.

The wicks still need to be migrated.

Also, at least two additional things need to be considered:

Should Latin American shows count as Western Animation?

What namespace are we supposed to use for non-Anime, non-Western Animation? I would propose making Animation/ an official namespace for everything that isn't in Anime/ or Western Animation/

20LogRoot10 Since: Aug, 2011
#19: Dec 19th 2011 at 5:05:31 PM

[up]My position is that there's no reason to split up Animation/ since Literature/ contains Hemingway's Six-Word Story, Haruhi Suzumiya AND The Bible. Which leads us to the really important question, which is "How should we reorganize the Eastern Animation folders?"; specifically, what folder would we put examples in that aren't from a place with a subcategory?

edited 19th Dec '11 5:05:52 PM by 20LogRoot10

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#21: Dec 30th 2011 at 12:35:48 PM

Calling the crowner in favour of:

Reorganize the Western Animation and Eastern Animation categories as follows:

Animated shows from any other region would be listed under Animated Shows until there are enough examples to justify having a separate index for them.

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Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#22: Jan 6th 2012 at 2:44:36 PM

So, is there anything else that needs to be done other than a new namespace and folders for them?

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."
Auxdarastrix Since: May, 2010
#24: Jan 7th 2012 at 6:23:36 AM

The following need to be migrated to Asian Animation and Eastern European Animation subpages and be put on the cut list or turned into redirects for whichever represents the bulk of the examples.

Horrible.Eastern Animation

GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff.Eastern Animation

NinjaPirateZombieRobot.Eastern Animation

Summary.Eastern Animation

edited 7th Jan '12 6:25:30 AM by Auxdarastrix

Oreochan from Pennsylvania Since: Dec, 1969
#25: Jan 7th 2012 at 7:59:53 AM

[up] I've moved them all to Asian Animation and cutlisted them. So anything else to do?

"Learning without thinking is labor lost. Thinking without learning is dangerous."

PageAction: EasternAnimation
14th Dec '11 1:20:42 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

Total posts: 30
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