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If you could become a cyborg,would you?

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Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#26: Dec 12th 2011 at 7:17:16 AM

Indeed. The senses is really which I'd upgrade... uh second, behind brain capacities. Just think about what cybernetics could do: Memorising everything, calculating complex formulas in your head, seeing ultraviolet, gecko hands allowing you to climb up straight walls, superhuman strength, etc etc...

Oh, and direct neural interfaces. I want my cyberpunk-style matrix, damnit!tongue

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#27: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:13:16 AM

Being part of "The Big Picture" or natural cycle does not make us perfect. Perfection is an abstract concept. We are no way perfect. In more than one way, instead of human body having become perfect for something, we made others perfect for human body.

We are not perfect by ourselves, but part of the natural order, which is perfect and flawless. Getting out of that cycle would, essentially, make us not alive any more - a former human, with only the brain left of his original biologocial parts, isn't a form of life but an intelligent machine - it can't be born, it can't grow, reproduce, fall sick, decay, die, and therefore, is not a living creature. It's hard to imagine what exactly they would look like, but it would definitely change the human race and, eventually, the ecosystem of Earth, into something much different than now.

edited 12th Dec '11 8:14:21 AM by MilosStefanovic

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#28: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:17:00 AM

We are not perfect by ourselves, but part of the natural order, which is perfect and flawless.
What ridiculous nonsense is that? That's a massive [Citation needed].

Getting out of that cycle would, essentially, make us not alive any more - a former human, with only the brain left of his original biologocial parts, isn't a form of life but an intelligent machine - it can't be born, it can't grow, fall sick, decay, die, and therefore, is not a living creature.
That's a warped logic. After all it would still be the same person. All body parts are replaceable. Only the brain really matters. So if it's the brain, but in a robot body, it's still the same person. And that what matters - call it alive or not, it would still be a person, and in fact the same person. With all rights and respected due to persons.

It's hard to imagine what exactly they would look like, but it would definitely change the human race and, eventually, the ecosystem of Earth, into something much different than now.
You mean, as has happened literally millions of times in the history of the ecosystem of Earth so far?

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
Enthryn (they/them) Since: Nov, 2010
(they/them)
#29: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:19:59 AM

The natural order isn't perfect or flawless at all. It's simply natural — a bunch of coincidences and messy happenings with certain underlying patterns driven by the laws of physics, from which evolutionary forces emerge as the primary driving force. The very ideas of "perfection" or "being flawed" are subjective, human notions; it doesn't even make sense to apply them to nature.

Anyway, humans (among other species) use tools all the time. Why is replacing a faulty body part wrong, but living in houses, flying in airplanes, correcting vision with glasses, and treating diseases with advanced medical techniques all just fine?

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#30: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:25:51 AM

...it can't grow, reproduce, fall sick, decay, die and therefore, is not a living creature.
For the first: so? The typical adult human doesn't grow any more, either. For the second: So? There are already too damn many humans on the planet. Third, Fourth, and Fifth: Those sound like Very Good Things. Sixth: So? Is there something wrong with that? Being a sapient machine would be just fine, thank you very much. I guess what I'm saying is: Where's the problem?

edited 12th Dec '11 8:29:22 AM by Balmung

TheProffesor The Professor from USA Since: Jan, 2011
#31: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:26:41 AM

What would be sweet is if you could replace the muscles and bones but grow flesh around it. I don't really want to quit being human, I just want to get rid of the failing parts. I wouldn't want to look like a robot, and I definately would want sensory.

BTW, I said "reliable" cybernetics in the OP, meaning crashes and other current computer problems wouldn't be a problem.

RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#32: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:53:16 AM

"Cyborg" is a very broad term. People that fit the definition not uncommon today, with pace-makers and whatnot.

If you mean mechanical limbs, it depends. I don't really have much use for super-strength.

The arguement that it's wrong because it's "not natural" is silly, though. Neither is agriculture.

edited 12th Dec '11 8:54:13 AM by RTaco

MilosStefanovic Decemberist from White City, Ruritania Since: Oct, 2010
Decemberist
#33: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:58:02 AM

Proffesor: BTW, I said "reliable" cybernetics in the OP, meaning crashes and other current computer problems wouldn't be a problem.

100% reliable cybernetics are hardly possible.

Enthryn: The natural order isn't perfect or flawless at all. It's simply natural — a bunch of coincidences and messy happenings with certain underlying patterns driven by the laws of physics, from which evolutionary forces emerge as the primary driving force. The very ideas of "perfection" or "being flawed" are subjective, human notions; it doesn't even make sense to apply them to nature.

Anyway, humans (among other species) use tools all the time. Why is replacing a faulty body part wrong, but living in houses, flying in airplanes, correcting vision with glasses, and treating diseases with advanced medical techniques all just fine?

Point taken for the semantics part. Still, the laws of physics in conjuction with different biological cycles were always able to eventually return the global ecosystem to the initial state of balance. Sure, species die, the morphology of the Earth changes, etc, but status quo was, essentially, always preserved - everything goes back to its initial stability. It's really fascinating, and works like a clockwork. The recent increase in pollution and the rapid increase of the human population has managed to tip it off, which is why we should be careful about our influence on the ecosystem. As for the last part - I don't have a problem with any of those, because they still keep humans a part of the ecosystem and under the influence of biological processes. The same can't be said for a full cyborg body.

Octo: What ridiculous nonsense is that? That's a massive [Citation needed].

See above.

Octo: That's a warped logic. After all it would still be the same person. All body parts are replaceable. Only the brain really matters. So if it's the brain, but in a robot body, it's still the same person. And that what matters - call it alive or not, it would still be a person, and in fact the same person. With all rights and respected due to persons.

From a strictly superficial perspective, it doesn't matter.

Octo: You mean, as has happened literally millions of times in the history of the ecosystem of Earth so far?

So far, there never was a form of artificial life which, technically, holds the entire Earth in its grasp, but is free from the influence of biological processes.

Balmung: For the first: so? The typical adult human doesn't grow any more, either. For the second: So? There are already too damn many humans on the planet. Third, Fourth, and Fifth: Those sound like Very Good Things. Sixth: So? Is there something wrong with that? Being a sapient machine would be just fine, thank you very much. I guess what I'm saying is: Where's the problem?

See the things I said above.

R Taco: "Cyborg" is a very broad term. People that fit the definition not uncommon today, with pace-makers and whatnot.

If you mean mechanical limbs, it depends. I don't really have much use for super-strength.

The arguement that it's wrong because it's "not natural" is silly, though. Neither is agriculture.

I don't have a problem with artificial aides, only with the replacement of biological human life with an artificial one.

I'll just be blunt and say that many of you are too caught up in the idea how cool it would be to be Adam Jensen or Major Kusanagi to realize the wider consequences radical transhumanism might have on us and the planet.

Come on, people, I can't be the only one who thinks this way. I need some help over here!

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
Mandemo Since: Apr, 2010
#34: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:59:36 AM

isn't a form of life but an intelligent machine - it can't be born, it can't grow, reproduce, fall sick, decay, die, and therefore, is not a living creature.

  • Birht: Machine is "born" when it's first tiem activated.
  • Grow: Updates and upgrades my friend. Updates and upgrades.
  • Reproduction: Ever head of Von Neuman machines? Machines that replicate themselves? That's reproduction.
  • Fall sick: Viruses and glitches man. Viruses and glitches.
  • Decay: Just like human body, unless you maintain it no matter how well you build it, it will fall apart sooner or later. Mars rovers have already shutdown due to stress.
  • Death: Permament shutdown, loss of main memory core(memories, personality that was shaped by those memories) and, possibly, breakdown off the body.

I have answered all criterias you gave. Each one I have pointed machines do posses. Just because they are not biological, does not mean it can't be "living". Isaac Asimov studied this subject pretty well as have numerous other writers.

And liek others said, we already enchace our very limited bodies with tools. Mans hand are not good at hunting, so we took a stick. When that stick didn't work, we sharpened it. We build planes because we lack wings. We build cars and bikes because we can't move fast and so forth and so forth.

EDIT

God damn ninja, where are the pirates when you need them!?

edited 12th Dec '11 9:01:16 AM by Mandemo

RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#35: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:01:09 AM

Widespread transhumanism could definitely cause problems, but not because there's anything inherently wrong with being a cyborg. It'd have more to do with how non-cyborgs would get left in the dust.

Biological life is just another form of machinery. There's nothing magic about what we're made of. And, don't forget, we're a part of nature, too. If there really is a "natural equillibrium" (but looking at all the extinctions in Earth's history caused by other organisms, this seems unlikely), then anything we do wouldn't be able to change that. "Artificial" doesn't really mean anything.

edited 12th Dec '11 9:07:20 AM by RTaco

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#36: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:18:31 AM

Get me a little more height, strength, and hopefully lower maintenance that results in a longer and more productive life, and you can sign me up. This world ain't meant for adults as short as I am, and aging and exercise to combat it are a bitch.

Anything that helps us live longer and (very importantly) more healthy and productive lives could be very important; the information we collect over a lifespan is an incredible resource. Would we have to be very, very careful about how we go about it and do our best to not create demographic problems? Of course, but I don't see that those are insurmountable obstacles.

edited 12th Dec '11 9:25:22 AM by TheGirlWithPointyEars

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Exelixi Lesbarian from Alchemist's workshop Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
#37: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:31:48 AM

Reliable cybernetics. . . Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I'd like a direct neural connection to the Interblags, a replacement for my wrists and knees, and functional eyes.

Also, if the tech was sufficient, something to enable me to "plug myself in" and laze around watching television instead of sleeping.

edited 12th Dec '11 9:32:35 AM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#38: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:41:34 AM

I most definitely would not want a direct neural Internet connection. I spend too much time in here as it is.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Enthryn (they/them) Since: Nov, 2010
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#40: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:50:40 AM

I think of these sorts of hypothetical cybernetics the same way I think of technology we already have. So, I'll probably end up in the same pseudoluddite sort of position, like how I spend hours online but don't own a cellphone.

I guess mostly I'd like a wireless internet connection and some good text input/output mechanism; I hate that I basically have to sit to use my computer. Might be able to do that now with AR glasses and keyer gloves, though. It's nice to be able to turn things off, so I may just stick with overlays until I'm comically backwards.

I wouldn't really need stronger limbs/eyes/etc. even if they were possible, lucky me, so I can eschew that part of sci-fi, I guess.

edited 12th Dec '11 9:51:40 AM by Tzetze

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lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#41: Dec 12th 2011 at 10:17:29 AM

I'd say I'd enjoy an enhancement of the eyes, otherwise meh.

To fail is to be flesh, only metal endures.

What is steel, compared to the hand that wields it?

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#42: Dec 12th 2011 at 10:30:51 AM

Only if I can go on a maniacal killing spree afterwards.

Trump delenda est
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#43: Dec 12th 2011 at 11:10:45 AM

[up][up]Well, the point is that the steel and the hand wielding it would be one and the same.

Even if I could get a robotic body that looked like my current body, I'd probably get fake glasses because I like how I look in them.

edited 12th Dec '11 11:11:42 AM by Balmung

Steventheman Cmdr. of His Supremacy's Armed Forces from Wales Since: Feb, 2011
Cmdr. of His Supremacy's Armed Forces
#44: Dec 12th 2011 at 11:43:35 AM

My eyes would be first, replace them with a HUD displaying vital signs, targeting and a direct link to police databases so I can know the record of anyone I talk to.

Then my left arm, add a taser and a very strong laser (Haha, that rhymes!) to disable attackers, and maybe, if they can, a extendable shield. But I must be able to take the attachments off, as I'm keeping the old arm attached.

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annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#45: Dec 12th 2011 at 11:48:04 AM

The typical adult human doesn't grow any more, either.

No, even in adulthood the human body continues to grow more epithelial tissue (skin and linings) and blood and such until death. It is constantly repairing and replenishing itself.

Actually, the organism is perhaps the best machine—it can consume and conserve energy far more effectively than any man-made machine, and it can rebuild itself and respond to stimuli in ways that a man-made machine can't.

I foresee that we are going to eventually incorporate the organism into our machines.

edited 12th Dec '11 11:59:08 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
TheProffesor The Professor from USA Since: Jan, 2011
#46: Dec 12th 2011 at 12:02:56 PM

Guys, can we stay on topic?

Eye enhancements would be great. You'd never haven't to wear glasses again. Plus, telescopic vision! Built in binoculars!

Octo Prince of Dorne from Germany Since: Mar, 2011
Prince of Dorne
#47: Dec 12th 2011 at 12:05:29 PM

The problem, Proff, is that topic and topic title are two different thingstongue The thread title says cyborgs, while you speak about "mere" cybernetics...

But as I've said. I hope this comes soon. Let's reenact Shadowrun and Deus Ex tongue

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#48: Dec 12th 2011 at 12:11:41 PM

[up][up] Laser eye surgery. Secret service people have to get it.

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#49: Dec 12th 2011 at 12:29:03 PM

100% reliable cybernetics are hardly possible.

That honestly depends on what technology level you are dealing with.

@OP: In my opinion, biological augmentation would be ideal, although I am actually having a form of that done when I have laser eye surgery sometime in the next few months. I am not opposed to mechanical enhancement, however.

[up] Ha, ninja'd on the laser eye surgery part.

edited 12th Dec '11 12:29:59 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
PinkHeartChainsaw Pink♥Chainsaw from Land of Rape and Honey Since: Oct, 2011
Pink♥Chainsaw
#50: Dec 12th 2011 at 12:35:21 PM

Thread Hop

Yes, very much so. I want my fucking robotic arm now!

"If there is a hole then it's a man's job to thrust into it" - Ryoma from New Getter Robo

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