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MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#234551: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:29:38 PM

If your intent is to make BAG a character that's not meant to be liked, you aren't showing it well. It feels like you're trying to make him likeable.

A character without flaws is utterly unrelatable, because players are human, and humans are flawed. This is a very important rule of writing.

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#234552: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:35:55 PM

Okay see here's the thing. Then he would be a Cosmic God that's nothing like a human. If can't be relateable.

However you seem to be going for giving him human like traits which means making him somewhat relateable. See the contradiction here?

Like Duff said, problems make a character interesting. It makes the audience become engrossed in the character. Someone that has no problems or flaws is not interesting, because the audience has no reason to even look their way or feel anything about them. It could be something as fancy as his universe blowing up, or as mundane as his toilet being clogged but he has to have problems to be interesting.

edited 1st Mar '14 4:36:50 PM by Azure

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FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#234553: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:40:59 PM

Okay.

So basically you've been all doing the same thing with Azzatoth, Yog and any other such outer being, mixing eldritch with human. I get called out on it for exactly what reason?

I have no definite intent to make him either likeable or not. This is utterly up to interpretation.

SR3NORMANDY Problem Child from N/A - In constant flux Since: Jul, 2012
Problem Child
#234554: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:41:52 PM

A dynamic character needs challenges to overcome and have them grow as a person.

They must have difficulties in their lives, just like we do.

A character without challenges is immutable. They don't change, and even if they are initially entertaining, they will eventually lose drive, since their character is fixed. This is the realm of the irrelevant side-character.

What if there’s no better word than just not saying anything?
ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#234555: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:43:34 PM

@Ferg: The way I see it, Lovecraft's eldritch horrors are meant to be utterly inscrutable and cruel bastards. That is the point of their existence. They do not need to have flaws because that is not their purpose in the narrative. They aren't meant to be engaging characters that you identify with. They are intended to scare you.

Having a direction for a character is important. You need to have an idea of where you're going; you can't leave absolutely everything up to the reader.

edited 1st Mar '14 4:45:07 PM by ramuf

MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#234556: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:46:22 PM

Azathoth is an arrogant ponce who is clearly meant to be hated.

Yog is a petty, immature stooge who is clearly meant to be hated.

Your attempt at this is apparently a flawless, infinitely wise, yet totally down-to-earth too you guys shining example of godhood who is apparently not meant to be hated.

RegularDefender MAYONNAISE from Blighty Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: Singularity
MAYONNAISE
#234557: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:46:31 PM

I think-

There is a difference between playing a God and giving him human traits- and playing a god that is already antrhopromorphised to some extent.

The reason why Mythology (Greek and Norse in particular) shows up in Fiction often, is because they already each have their own problems, and weaknesses.

For instance- Zeus can't go one story without having created yet another son/daughter of his.

1.5 imperial gallons of tea were consumed during the writing of this post
GameSpazzer The Beta Male from Against! The! Wall! Since: Jun, 2010
The Beta Male
#234558: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:47:52 PM

Because Azathoth is an outright villain. You are supposed to hate his guts because he does terrible, terrible things to Cloud and has zero comprehension about how mortal stuff work. He does not attempt to philosophise, and does not want to understand. Who gives a shit about a bunch of ants? And even then, he has flaws (apart from the whole "completely irredeemably evil" thing), because he's been dragged down to their level and is utterly over his head and confused about many things that I shall not elaborate upon because that would spoil things for those who weren't here for the start and conclusion of the previous arc involving him.

And because Yog is a smarmy douchebag that is just as likely to destroy the universe as he is turn it all into lime-flavoured Jell-O. Yog does not have human problems, because the only thing human about him are his speech patterns.

You want him to be both relatable and all knowing, something neither of the above characters are.

Don't use the age old "but you did!" argument. This is not an okay thing to do.

edited 1st Mar '14 4:48:55 PM by GameSpazzer

MY SOUL IS DARK BUT MY HAIR IS COLORFUL — Brahian Pokémon Alchemist
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#234559: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:57:32 PM

Alright.

Meat grinder for characters deemed irredeemable this is then.

Shame. I actually had fun in roleplaying him.

eldritchseer all the loose ends from Cocytus Since: Mar, 2019
all the loose ends
#234560: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:58:19 PM

Ferg.

Don't take it personally.

ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#234561: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:58:51 PM

I don't think you need to do that. Choose what you want him to be, and try to develop that.

MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#234562: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:59:00 PM

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, but it sounds passive-aggressive.

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#234563: Mar 1st 2014 at 4:59:34 PM

I don't.

I used a borrowed OC to see how he can fare. Whether it's my error at understanding the character or just how he is, doesn't matter.

Meatgrinder.

@Duffy: Can we please not start this whole passive-aggressive thing? Just because I don't necessarily agree with you doesn't mean I'm already going passive-aggregative.

edited 1st Mar '14 5:00:34 PM by FergardStratoavis

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#234564: Mar 1st 2014 at 5:02:42 PM

Ferg, we didn't say all this because we wanted BAG gone. We said it because we want you to rethink what you're doing with him and try to improve him, so everyone can have more fun interacting with him.

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GameSpazzer The Beta Male from Against! The! Wall! Since: Jun, 2010
The Beta Male
#234565: Mar 1st 2014 at 5:08:15 PM

Can we please not start this whole passive-aggressive thing? Just because I don't necessarily agree with you doesn't mean I'm already going passive-aggregative.

Ferg, I don't know how else to put this, but this is not how you respond to criticism. Passive-aggressive jabs are also not okay, and not proof that you can handle con-crit in a mature way. It does not convince us that we should keep a player around that we have to walk on eggshells around every time we have an issue with them because they cannot take pointers without flying off the handle about them. And calling us all a "meatgrinder" for giving you pointers we have all had at some point does naught but reinforce this opinion.

I'm sorry, but you were warned repeatedly about this. We are tired of drama, and I have to draw a line somewhere. Due to your inability to accept fault or criticism in a mature, calm way, I am going to ask you to leave this thread.

edited 1st Mar '14 5:18:25 PM by GameSpazzer

MY SOUL IS DARK BUT MY HAIR IS COLORFUL — Brahian Pokémon Alchemist
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#234566: Mar 1st 2014 at 5:27:32 PM

I wasn't referring to you as a meatgrinder. I meant just putting him away, perhaps for a later use.

I did nothing to warrant such a punishment. For you to ask me to leave after you instigated this, well... I don't know what to say.

You see passive-aggressive whenever someone shows up with their ideas of carrying out RP'ing that you don't like. A comment? Clearly it must be passive-aggressive. It started with Random and went all the way down here, it seems.

But okay. You want me out, I'll show myself out. It's just too bad that it's in such circumstances. I expected it would be something more of a voluntary retirement.

I'll be appealing to mods about this, just to let you know. Whether their opinion proves that you're right and I'm wrong or the other way around, it's been fun.

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#234567: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:10:33 PM

So Blue Exorcist.

Anyone else seen it?

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MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#234569: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:11:45 PM

I've considered watching it, but I've never gotten around to it.

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#234570: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:16:05 PM

You guys.

This is the best thing.

Its an urban fantasy tale about a kid working his up through a Demon Hunting organization.

All the character get a buch of development, the fight scences are all fuck awesome. And the Art...is just beautiful.

...Also Yoko somehow got in there.

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thespacephantom Jamais vu from the smallest church in Saint-Saëns Since: Oct, 2009
Jamais vu
#234571: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:16:54 PM

you had me at urban fantasy

UN JOUR JE SERAI DE RETOUR PRÈS DE TOI
Trip Since: Mar, 2012
#234572: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:17:16 PM

yoko

...

...

. . .

i'm listening

ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#234573: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:17:43 PM

Yoko? Gurren Lagann Yoko?

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#234574: Mar 1st 2014 at 6:28:10 PM

The kid's also the antichrist. sort of.

but yeah. Yoko is there.

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MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible

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