couldn't really parse what he did
because it's so huge and massive
tho he could probably argue 'well i did it to save another universe, but since y'all stopped me it all was pointless'
(don't tell him clouds universe got destroyed anyways that'll spiral things irrevocably -makes a shushing noise-)
yes
that was more real and immediate than some podunk alt timeline
edited 2nd Dec '15 8:58:23 PM by thespacephantom
UN JOUR JE SERAI DE RETOUR PRÈS DE TOIRennor's thought process was "I'll only pick a universe where the Reapers win the war so nobody suffers".
Which kinda ignored all the billions of other galaxies in the universe.
Not to mention the fact that the Reaper cycles mean that even the milky way galaxy would never be without life.
How silly of him.
What if there’s no better word than just not saying anything?That kind of moral rationalization wasn't explicitly part of the thought process, I think.
Or rather, it was along the lines of "this one is unimportant and can be subordinated to an actually important one."
The way I take it, it didn't have clearly delineated moral reasoning behind it. It was more visceral and emotional-based than mathematical-morality-based.
edited 2nd Dec '15 9:02:53 PM by ramuf
i
still didnt like it??
and i dont mean that in a "holy shit that sucks" kind of way
i mean more like "it just doesnt really work" kind of way if that makes any sense? well thinking of it now, not even in that kind of way
more like a "how do you even come back from that" kind of way
like iunno i just dont think rennor should be able to come back from that
lame i know but
yeah
edited 2nd Dec '15 9:06:19 PM by ChrissieMcNapkins
I live in a constant state of fear and misery.He was confronted with it in the sense that people said that "the numbers don't matter! Killing is killing, no matter how many die. Some death to prevent more death isn't justified on this scale."
But otherwise, no. Or at least, the mathematics of morality were only used against him.
edited 2nd Dec '15 9:07:07 PM by ramuf
On the subject of characters committing atrocities.
I think the only way (for me, personally) to satisfyingly end it is with no ending. When something horrendous like that has happened, I don't think there's ever a way to fully resolve it.
They're defining sorts of moments, and to "get over them" isn't all that realistic. Watershed moments stick with people, whether they're bad or good or neutral or what-have-you. Everyone has them. I still remember leaving my elementary school for a middle school in a different district, for instance. Unimportant, relatively speaking, but it's a big deal at the time. And in that same vein, sacrificing a universe may be cosmically insignificant, but it was important in the moment.
It's an approach that I think is fundamentally the only good way to deal with it. In some ways, all subsequent actions are, in part, a response to whatever happened.
In the case of Rennor, he's chosen to deal with it by going out and trying to do some good in the world. He's helping fight against the Combine, a suitably totally evil foe for that sort of enemy. There's only good karma to be had there, is another way of saying it.
It's the approach I've taken with Tallis. Rennor will never atone fully for what he did, and neither will Tallis. As a result, everything they do is in some sense part of an eternal, never-ending atonement that will continue until they die or experience some other big watershed moment.
edited 2nd Dec '15 9:19:14 PM by ramuf
My main issue is that I just still can't wrap my head around Rennor doing it. And I get that it was this irrational thing that he did, and the context the decision was made in. I just have trouble associating Rennor with the outcome.
What if there’s no better word than just not saying anything?He was put in an extraordinary circumstance, and the options before him were as outlandish as they were repugnant. Push hard enough, and one of those options have to be chosen.
No, it's not something you typically associate with Rennor, the endlessly awkward people-pleaser. But he was pushed, and something gave way. This is the aftermath of that.
What could he have done? There weren't any good options, and in that moment, he had to come to the realization that his mental set didn't apply here. His normal method of solving problems (which would be, in all likelihood, intense vacillation until everyone was somewhat satisfied) was entirely inapplicable. No action he could have taken would have fit the "normal" limits of his character. There was no Rennor-esque way to deal with it, because this wasn't a Rennor-esque problem to begin with.
It's odd, yes, but given the unbelievably extraordinary nature of it, the results have no choice but to match the thing that gave rise to them. Anything else wouldn't have fit.
I think, if Rennor came back that A) Its Space's choice
And B) It it'd be the same sort of relationship that Fen has with FG!Cloud. At this point they know eachother to be capable of some really fucked up stupid shit, but at the end of the day they care about each other more than they do all the faceless people that they hurt.
PM box is Closed, Indefinitely Friend Code: 3368-4181-6850People are weird like that.
Coras fell in god-damn love with Cloud, in spite of all the shitty stuff he's done and had to do.
What if there’s no better word than just not saying anything?

It wasn't that Rennor was unapologetic.
That's not the right word.
He didn't understand why it was wrong, and that's what made things sour. In the beginning, anyway.
I imagine the reaction to it made him feel apologetic after a while.
edited 2nd Dec '15 8:54:56 PM by ramuf