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MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#290201: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:29:10 AM

I don't really know why she was there, aside from being under the assumption that Roger was going to kill Homura, and it was frustrating when Roger was essentially barred from participation and ignored while she was there and everyone else was pouring into the graveyard.

Really, my problem condensed in a nutshell is that

A. If the characters wanted to come off as compassionate and reasonable, they should have had at least some degree of concern or interest in what Homura did to Julie, rather than just be laser-focused on making her feel better about herself.

B. I don't agree at all with this implied notion that a character is immediately in the wrong and deserves nothing but scorn because he was angry at someone. That isn't being reasonable or compassionate.

Roger needed to be calmed down, yes. But nobody tried to calm him down. They just stood in his way, basically said he was wrong for getting angry over a hurt friend, and threatened him with violence if he didn't shut up and do as he was told.

ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#290202: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:29:54 AM

The thing is, Roger specifically mentioned that Julie was devastated and super upset. And that she'd been crying.

But no one really batted an eye and just kept on treating him like he was a villainous douchebag.

I have been ninja'd.

edited 17th Jul '14 8:30:25 AM by ramuf

SR3NORMANDY Problem Child from N/A - In constant flux Since: Jul, 2012
Boxen whatever he can Since: Jan, 2013
whatever he can
#290204: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:36:48 AM

basically what duff said

dead devotion
Bcom Since: Jun, 2014
#290205: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:42:05 AM

You know I'm sorry for having Gespenst there at the graveyard but at the same time I'm not.

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#290206: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:46:20 AM

Roger was essentially barred from participation and ignored

Duff you do this to other characters all the time. Like all the time. Meenah was a recent example. No one else has a problem with it. And all of the other character weren't approaching Homura with hate in hand.

A. If the characters wanted to come off as compassionate and reasonable, they should have had at least some degree of concern or interest in what Homura did to Julie, rather than just be laser-focused on making her feel better about herself.

Julie is a grown woman. And Homura could literally be hurt by this situation. That and Homu's garnered more sympathy by being at least some kind of friendly.

Julie's being upset for a while vs. Homura getting closer to witchdom. Which is more important?

B. I don't agree at all with this implied notion that a character is immediately in the wrong and deserves nothing but scorn because he was angry at someone. That isn't being reasonable or compassionate.

Fen gets this treatment all the time. Sometimes from your characters. I fully embrace that the person who's going to be seen as in the wrong is the one that's getting emotional.

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ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#290207: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:49:13 AM

Yes, being upset for Homura is vastly more dangerous than for Julie.

But that still doesn't mean that she should have been disregarded completely.

SR3NORMANDY Problem Child from N/A - In constant flux Since: Jul, 2012
Problem Child
#290208: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:51:09 AM

In fairness to Duff, ignoring Meenah went from an accident to a self-aware joke. No discontent over here.

What if there’s no better word than just not saying anything?
Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#290209: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:53:13 AM

Fen was going to say that Homura should go talk to Julie but not right at that moment.

If she did right then, Julie probably would have done her whole super antisocial schtick, and Homura wouldn't have known what to say.

All the while Rodger's just breathing over Homura's shoulder to force a solution because he demands instant gratification.

edited 17th Jul '14 8:59:34 AM by Azure

PM box is Closed, Indefinitely Friend Code: 3368-4181-6850
ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#290210: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:56:42 AM

Who's to say what she would have done. I don't think she would have gone antisocial, but maybe. Or maybe not.

Oh well. It's done, and I'm going to leave it at that.

Bcom Since: Jun, 2014
#290211: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:57:37 AM

I wish I had sent gespenst to fight the sea urchin but I don't like messing with seer's monsters.

edited 17th Jul '14 8:57:54 AM by Bcom

GameSpazzer The Beta Male from Against! The! Wall! Since: Jun, 2010
The Beta Male
#290212: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:59:04 AM

Guys, I'm completely okay with you guys working this out like adults, but can we try to avoid the "but you did" argument? That never leads to anything but shitflinging.

MY SOUL IS DARK BUT MY HAIR IS COLORFUL — Brahian Pokémon Alchemist
MobileLeprechaun (: from Grayrock, TX Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
(:
#290213: Jul 17th 2014 at 8:59:12 AM

Aaaaaaaaa y'all are talkative when I'm gone.

In all seriousness, I think I may have nodded off before crucial parts of the clusterfuck went down, and while I have an opinion on the matter, I'm too sleepy to phrase it decently and I fell asleep before it concluded.

make it through this year if it kills you yet | 2001-2019
MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#290214: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:03:24 AM

I'm going to preface this by saying that the "But YOU did this with THIS" argument is a terrible argument and does nothing to defend your case.

Even if we're under the assumption that Fen only really shows compassion to friends, It has been previously established that Fen at some degree cares about Julie's well-being. This scene seems to imply that she doesn't care about Julie at all.

Even pragmatically speaking, the group made no attempt to diffuse the situation in a remotely reasonable way. They just tried to drown out Roger's angry with more angry, even though they clearly weren't in an enraged state of mind.

"Being angry over something someone did" is not "bringing hate into a situation."

I'm not liking how belligerent you're being about this, Jam.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:04:28 AM by MacDuffy

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#290215: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:04:46 AM

First, I apologize for initiating the clusterfuck with Homucifer. You're right, it had been my intention that Homucifer show up because it looked like Roger was going to harm Homura (Homulily is a bad end for everyone including her), but it didn't occur to me then that I should have had Homucifer skedaddle earlier when everyone else started showing up.

As for the selective filter, my thought process for Homucifer had been that Roger was the greatest threat because he was the biggest unknown and looked like a bigger version of foolish!Sayaka - everyone else there she had encountered before.

I didn't intend to whitewash Homura's actions - she's going to have to talk with Julie because I don't want Homulily yet. And in defense of Roger, he doesn't know how much more dangerous Homura or Sayaka losing it is (I don't think).

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#290216: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:08:16 AM

He doesn't.

And if we're going by the fact that they needed to create a less stressful environment for Homura or she'll turn Witch and kill everyone, they still didn't act in a way that made sense, because everyone was being aggressive and confrontational.

SR3NORMANDY Problem Child from N/A - In constant flux Since: Jul, 2012
Bcom Since: Jun, 2014
#290218: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:14:11 AM

You know the more this is debated the more I am actually enjoying what happened in the graveyard, it shows that people will still make the wrong decision even when they should know better. In other words everyone grabbed the Idiot Ball with both hands.

ramuf Electric Heart from the Shining Throne Since: Jan, 2013
Electric Heart
#290219: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:15:11 AM

That's not necessarily a good thing.

TheIcySneasel Nightwatch from NIPPON MANJUUUUU Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Nightwatch
#290220: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:25:09 AM

Blaargh, maybe I'm less than involved with the sitch here, but...

I'm kinda sympathizing with Duff on this one. From what I've seen, lot of this looks like a big misunderstanding both IC and OOC. But if nobody here is willing to budge, i.e., if no one acknowledges that they're actions either IC or OOC may have been wrong or at the very least misguided, then I don't think we'll be getting anywhere on the issue. Cooperation with other players is what keeps games like this afloat.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:30:16 AM by TheIcySneasel

Standing in the shadows at the end of my bed.
Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#290221: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:25:58 AM

First of all, I'm not being belligerent. If I were being belligerent you can bet there'd be alot more cussing.

What I'm trying to say is that what happened IC should not be a big issue for anyone. The real issue I have here is that since Rodger didn't get to be seen in the right IC you are now brining it up here in an attempt to make us believe that Rodger was in the right OOC

An IC argument has been brought over to OOC and that shouldn't happen.

Maybe the characters could have handled the situation better. But are we really gonna start tailoring our writing so that our characters are always right and good no matter what? No. Because then we'd have a bunch of Sue's.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:30:01 AM by Azure

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megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#290222: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:33:27 AM

If I may be perfectly frank, my gut reaction was that aggression was the proper response, because I had interpreted Roger to be beyond reason at that point.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
MacDuffy from Enies Lobby Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#290223: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:38:36 AM

You can be belligerent without cussing, and you're being belligerent. You're making personal accusations at me and my characters instead of focusing on making a proper case. That's being belligerent. You're the only one doing this here.

My issue is not that no-one was seeing Roger the way I wanted them to see him. My issue is that what I was hoping would be a conversation between just Homura and Roger ended up turning into a colossal confusing clusterfuck where people who had no involvement with the previous situation just showed up out of nowhere and acted wildly unreasonable and, for some, out of character, even when they were aware of the context of the situation and were clearly trying to act as the reasonable party.

[up] No one even tried reason, is what irks me.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:42:20 AM by MacDuffy

TheIcySneasel Nightwatch from NIPPON MANJUUUUU Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Nightwatch
#290224: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:44:35 AM

It ain't a matter of doing things perfectly all the time every time, man. It's about having your characters respond to a situation in a way that makes sense. If they knew that Rodger had a reason to be angry, then they probably should have at least tried to diffuse the situation somehow. Simply shutting out an angry person without trying to reason with them is probably just gonna make it worse.

It looks like a case of tunnel vision the way I see it. Your characters don't have to be perfect, but they do need to act in a way that makes sense.

Standing in the shadows at the end of my bed.
Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#290225: Jul 17th 2014 at 9:46:07 AM

My issue is not that no-one was seeing Roger the way I wanted them to see him.

This is an issue why?

No one even tried reason, is what irks me.

Rodger has repeatedly shown himself to be unreasonable when not emotional. Why would someone try to reason with him when he's running around throwing curses and looking ready to kill someone?

[up] Archer, Ges, and Fen were trying to protect their friend from the raging scary dude. That makes sense to me.

edited 17th Jul '14 9:48:19 AM by Azure

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