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Because, hey, Canada needs some love as well.

Now, then, as a Yank to the Canadians, what has Stephen Harper done as Prime Minister, what were the top parties and how did the general election turn out this year?

GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#301: Jan 6th 2012 at 5:38:11 AM

Conservative Canadian politics are starting to sound as shady as Berlusconi.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#302: Jan 6th 2012 at 6:15:03 AM

Are there any factions amongst the Tories? For Americans, it's the corporatist establishment, the religious right and the libertarians.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#303: Jan 6th 2012 at 11:34:33 AM

[up][up][up] After a few years of Harper? Layton could've kicked his ass up around his shoulders.

[up] Hell no, Harper runs that shit. Party politics are very top-down in Canada.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#304: Jan 6th 2012 at 6:00:59 PM

Well there ARE factions but as Taoist says the leader of the party controls everything with a tight whip. There's the religious right and the business pro-corporate right and the original progressive conservatives. The P Cs are basically nothing at this point, the religious right are speaking out and Harper has yet to rein them in (and has in fact given them a few bones here and there) but it's the business pro-corporate right that is taking the lead. As Harper is one of them, he sets the tone for the rest of the party and its policies.

edited 6th Jan '12 6:01:23 PM by breadloaf

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#305: Jan 6th 2012 at 7:59:01 PM

[up] Would you say that Harper is officially Canadas' own Big Bad?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#306: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:33:51 PM

I don't think I'm old enough to make a judgement like that.

Afterall, a lot of people felt Trudeau (to this day) was the big bad. He put troops onto the streets of Quebec and imposed martial law during peacetime to quell the FLQ terrorist movement.

Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#307: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:36:24 PM

Tropes don't apply to real life. Concepts like "big bad" and "complete monster" wouldn't be applicable either way. Stop trying to force people into compartmentalized roles designed to boil fiction down to basic elements and let's talk about actual politics.

When is the next Canadian election, again...?

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#308: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:39:22 PM

Well he won in 2011, he gets a 5-year mandate, so 2016 but he made a rule that an election must be held within 4 years, so that's 2015. Yaaayyy.... ... sad

Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#309: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:40:48 PM

And I take it there's no chance of a vote of no confidence, recall, or any other such measure?

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#310: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:47:18 PM

There's no chance of no-confidence unless Harper starts shooting M Ps in the house of commons. Actually he might just go to jail for that and then I don't know what happens. According to constitution nothing prevents him from ruling from a jail cell :P

We don't have recall.

The issue is that as intelligent tropers on an intellectual forum, we bash him because he is bad. He doesn't follow science, he's too ideologically driven and plays too much politics instead of running a country. That makes for a bad leader.

But voters don't mind voting for a bad leader if he wears the right colours. In this case blue. The crux of the problem with democracy is that you have to be reeeeeeeeeeeeally bad for voters to actually not vote for you.

Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#311: Jan 6th 2012 at 10:51:00 PM

Lovely.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#312: Jan 7th 2012 at 12:02:32 AM

@Flyboy Tropes do apply to Real Life: Everybody (that isn't genocidal, crazy or xenophobic) considers Hitler to be a Complete Monster, and even if you argue that he isn't, he's still considered as one regardless. We also have The Empire, The Federation, The Republic, The Remnant, The Emperor, Evil Overlord, Jerkass, Hegemonic Empire, Big Brother Is Watching, Gray-and-Grey Morality, Shrinking Violet...

On the other hand, politics in general is a massive game of charades. Except they lie when you answer correctly, in order to Troll you. It's like a self-parody.

edited 7th Jan '12 12:17:44 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Flyboy Decemberist from the United States Since: Dec, 2011
Decemberist
#313: Jan 7th 2012 at 12:22:09 PM

No, tropes do not apply to real life, and if you want them to, take it to trope talk. This is about serious and relevant things, not your opinion on the fictional merits of a real life person.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#314: Jan 7th 2012 at 7:36:08 PM

So a recent article was talking about how scientists in Canada believe that their voice is "privileged" compared to others but from a politician's POV, it's yet another lobby interest. Thus, if scientists want to be taken more seriously they must play the politics game.

America likely suffers from the same problem, so what do you think?

I personally don't want scientists to play the politics game. It's kinda the point.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#315: Jan 7th 2012 at 7:39:45 PM

^ Do you have a link to the article?

I agree with you. I don't want to see scientists play the political game, but it might be unavoidable.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#316: Jan 7th 2012 at 7:47:54 PM

[up][up][up] Reality Is Unrealistic. If you made a movie with characters that are based off Republicans, critics and viewers will say "too unrealistic!", even though the representations is totally accurate.

[up][up] Scientists are in the game as well?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#317: Jan 7th 2012 at 8:21:57 PM

So a recent article was talking about how scientists in Canada believe that their voice is "privileged" compared to others but from a politician's POV, it's yet another lobby interest. Thus, if scientists want to be taken more seriously they must play the politics game.
Fuck that. Though I don't consider scientists completely trustworthy even now, they are much closer to being a force for truth than politicians could ever be, and the very idea of poisoning science with politics just seems dangerous.

If some people aren't taking scientists seriously that's their own damn fault.

edited 7th Jan '12 8:22:58 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#318: Jan 7th 2012 at 9:04:39 PM

I agree and I think it better to change the system to more appreciate voices that know what they are talking about versus being backed by more money.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#319: Jan 8th 2012 at 2:28:48 AM

What's the current issue that Harper's tackling?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#320: Jan 8th 2012 at 4:14:32 PM

Probably the biggest one is Attawapiskat. It's a native community suffering a severe housing shortage in the middle of winter. Harper is blaming the band council for mismanagement of funds but the Auditor General just lambasted him for... mismanagement of funds going to native communities.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#321: Jan 9th 2012 at 1:40:18 AM

[up] I'll take a guess: Harper's going to leave things as they are, and basically let the low funding erode the native community?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#322: Jan 9th 2012 at 10:25:30 AM

He's actually making it worse. In a case of "stop helping me", he forced 3rd party management on the community and told them to pay for it because, as you know, any native problem is of course solely the fault of natives.

As a result, teachers in the community aren't getting paid anymore to meet the salary demands of the 3rd party consultant.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#323: Jan 9th 2012 at 10:38:18 AM

[up] Very Republican-esque. What's with Harper and his Americanophilia?

I mean, his tactics are the same as American Republicans. His goals are the same as Republicans. His "accomplishments" are the same as Republicans. His attitude resembles a Republican governor. He's even an ex-lobbyist. Americans used to think that Reagan was the worst Republican, until Bush showed up. Is it accurate to say that Harper's worse than Mulroney?

edited 10th Jan '12 1:44:32 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#324: Jan 10th 2012 at 6:09:07 PM

Pretty much. With a deficit greater than Mulroney he has basically won the "I'm way worse" award.

Actually recently he just called Canadian environmental groups opposed to the two pipeline projects for the oil sands as "radicals". So he basically just called all the native band councils and Canadian environmental groups as "radicals" and "funded by foreign sources", but he's perfectly okay with China making a 100% buy out of Athabasca Oilsands Project and the US making 100% buy out of multiple oil sands project. Because that's not foreign money if it's going into oil companies.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#325: Jan 10th 2012 at 11:36:15 PM

"Funded by foreign sources?" That's Muammar Gaddafi shit right there.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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