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Because, hey, Canada needs some love as well.

Now, then, as a Yank to the Canadians, what has Stephen Harper done as Prime Minister, what were the top parties and how did the general election turn out this year?

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#276: Jan 4th 2012 at 8:21:20 AM

He got booted over a one billion dollar scandal but we could never prove his involvement. He professes his innocence but really where did the money mysteriously disappear off to?

Also he left us with the greatest deficit in history but that title is now awarded to the subsequent Tory PM, Harper.

Mulroney also complained he was saddled with a recession and thus had no choice but to go into massive deficit spending.

Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#277: Jan 4th 2012 at 9:52:24 AM

Well Harper could say he's deficit spending, actually. And... that's not that implausible, it's probably helping.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#278: Jan 4th 2012 at 3:43:05 PM

Mulroney's...complicated.

On the one hand, he was hated in his time (and to a substantial extent, still is) for failed attempts at constitutional reform intended to make Quebec happier (very long story, don't ask unless you want to know a great deal about Canadian history and federalism) and for introducing the GST (7% sales tax). He also signed NAFTA, which plenty of people are unhappy about. And on the surface, he looks like Canada's copy of Thatcher and Reagan, with whom he got along very well.

On the flip side - introducing a major new tax is not the kind of thing conservatives are generally known for, and the GST had a fair bit to do with the achievement of a balanced budget later, under the Liberals; the other main factor in balancing the budget was major Liberal spending cuts, which is why some people say Canadian politics can be upside-down.

Mulroney also took a somewhat independent course on foreign policy - unlike Thatcher and Reagan, he took a strong stance against the South African apartheid regime; one of my professors who was Canada's ambassador to South Africa during that time said his instructions boiled down to "make the apartheid government's life hell". He also opposed Reagan's interventions in Latin America. Some of this also had to do with his Foreign Affairs Minister, Joe Clark, who is basically the template for a decent, moderate Canadian conservative and is respected across the political spectrum as a good person.

edited 4th Jan '12 3:44:38 PM by WarriorEowyn

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#279: Jan 4th 2012 at 4:36:23 PM

Ah but then again, all the good people in his regime were very well respected. As you point out, Joe Clark, is still very much a very liked politician and a poster child for "what could have been" for tories of today. Socially left, attempts at good foreign policy and a brand of Canadian conservatism. This versus Harper's American-style politics, attack ads and neoconservatism.

You might notice Mulroney, not being dead, continues to talk about what he'd like to see. Last week he suggested that Canada sign more border security deals with the US to ensure NAFTA's continued existence. While he might have said on the one hand that tighter border controls are against his ideals he was asking to sign treaties with America to do just that.


Also Peter Mackay has just married former beauty queen Nazanin Afshin-Jam. I hope they have a nice honey moon whisked away aboard a CF search and rescue helicopter! wild mass guess

WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#280: Jan 4th 2012 at 4:57:02 PM

Wow! That was unexpected. Congratulations to them.

edited 4th Jan '12 4:57:46 PM by WarriorEowyn

johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#281: Jan 4th 2012 at 8:07:54 PM

Joe Clark? Hell yeah!

edited 4th Jan '12 8:08:09 PM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#282: Jan 5th 2012 at 2:56:48 AM

Is Harper on good terms with Mulroney?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#283: Jan 5th 2012 at 3:01:27 AM

It's hard to say. On one hand, Harper refused to prosecute Mulroney and defended him against new charges. On the other hand, he tried to secretly strip him of Tory membership.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#284: Jan 5th 2012 at 6:48:36 AM

[up] Harper tried to throw Mulroney under the bus? Is Harper that power-hungry?

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#285: Jan 5th 2012 at 8:29:45 PM

It's Harper. He threw Guergis under the bus just because she disagreed with him privately. Had the RCMP "investigate her" for unspecified charges that were never revealed (not even to her) but did it super publicly so that he could have her thrown out of the caucus. Then later when the RCMP reported nothing came of the investigation into the "thing which could not be named" she already lost her riding and everything.

So yeah, using slimy tactics to destroy someone's life is just part of the game for Harper.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#286: Jan 5th 2012 at 9:05:59 PM

Reagan is worshiped like The Messiah by American conservatives and the news media; independents are easily tricked into supporting him (like myself and Cenk Uygur were before we found out what he really was about). Hell, Blue Dog Democrats (basically conservatives pretending to be liberals) started off as "Reagan Democrats".

By contrast, Thatcher is The Scrappy to anyone that isn't a conservative, kinda like how Sasuke Uchiha is reviled by the western fandom, but beloved in the Japanese fandom. Mulroney is.... what, exactly, to Canadians?

edited 5th Jan '12 9:16:08 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#287: Jan 5th 2012 at 9:26:32 PM

My image him is mostly defined by the This Hour Has 22 Minutes skit Talking To Americans, where we joked about Mulroney's ship the Brownnose, and how the 80s were a period of great exposure for Mulroney's Brownnosing.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#288: Jan 5th 2012 at 9:35:00 PM

Since Harper is one of the main topics, I'm going to make a comparison with an American governor named Rick Snyder (from Michigan), because I see Snyder as a perfect counterpart to Harper.

Back at 2009 - 2010, Snyder campaigned as a moderate, promising that he would look out for the citizens of Michigan, but as soon as he got into office, he cut business taxes by 86% (that's 2.1 billion dollars saved by corporations). At the same time, he cut education funding, increased taxes on the middle class by 600 dollars a year. He personally appoints five "emergency managers" to deal with financial issues in Michigan, but they're getting paid much more than city mayors in Michigan (the managers earn between $132,000 to $250,000 per year). In fact, they can limit pay for local elected officials, redistribute money to corporate executives, and removed the managers' salaries as part of the state budget (nullifying any future attempts to stop any of that from happening).

Can you see Harper doing the same?

edited 5th Jan '12 9:56:46 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#289: Jan 5th 2012 at 10:25:38 PM

Well Harper just blamed Attawapiskat native band council for "gross mismanagement" of government funds. An audit just came out that said federal bureaucrats (ie. the guys working for Harper) grossly mismanaged funds given to native communities. Hurr!

At the same time, in order to pay for the third-party management that Harper hoisted onto the community, the teachers will have to skip pay now. Hurr!

Mulroney to Canadian politics is like cancer to a healthy person. I think most Tories have given up trying to justify the man's policies as they resulted in nothing good. You see, unlike Thatcher and Reagan who both had external serendipity save them from the eternal hell of being on the clear wrong in history books (the Falklands War and the fall of the Soviet Union), Mulroney had nothing. He sucked, he plunged Canada into economic misery following idiotic right-wing sentiments and then he was finally thrown out of office over a billion dollar scandal. No magical foreign enemies to suddenly fall apart during his reign to justify any of his garbage.

edited 5th Jan '12 10:25:48 PM by breadloaf

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#290: Jan 5th 2012 at 10:32:15 PM

[up] Which makes Harpers' attempt at removing him from the party seem more like Pragmatic Villainy. Remove The Scrappy, and get support, as it were.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#291: Jan 5th 2012 at 10:38:06 PM

I dunno, it's just really strange I suppose. Mulroney was a former tory prime minister, which is not exactly unimportant, and thus one would expect he can maintain his tory affiliation unto death. That is, he can continue to support and donate to the tory party. Harper wanted to deny him that but an internal tory rebellion stopped him from doing so because they felt it was going way too far in the whole soviet-style "unperson-ing".

I'm guessing if it were up to Harper, he'd wish the man would just quietly disappear.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#292: Jan 5th 2012 at 10:47:45 PM

[up] Or, in the most extreme case, let him die in an "accident". Not even American Republicans have done something like that, but since Harper's trying to become one, you never know when he'll cross the Moral Event Horizon.

edited 5th Jan '12 10:48:20 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#293: Jan 5th 2012 at 10:52:43 PM

Man, I'm afraid to joke about that.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#294: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:02:31 PM

Harper's a guy that isn't allowed to get contributions. In fact, he was one of the guys that legally bribed certain officials to go his way. However, he's just as corrupt as an American Republican, his base is just as cult-like as American conservatives, he's essentially making himself a dictator in all but name, and he's single-handedly turned Canada into America lite. Does that cover it for him?

Also, for Snyder, in order to pay for those business tax cuts, he severed funding for education by 8-10%. Recall efforts have gone underway ever since he got in office. Can Canadians recall a politician from Parliament?

edited 5th Jan '12 11:07:41 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#295: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:10:36 PM

We have no-confidence vote but he's got a majority situation so it's not happening.

Actually Harper was caught bribing Cadman to change his vote, but the MP refused and later died of cancer. The bribe was a one million dollar life insurance plan that would pay out when he died (of cancer that everybody knew he had) so that his family would have the money. That's... "low" to put it mildly.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#296: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:16:47 PM

[up] Harper tried to give a million dollar bribe to the family of a dying politician, to coerce Cadman to change his vote?

That's not "low". That's territory a Republican wouldn't cross, but only because they're not the ones doing the bribes.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#297: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:23:18 PM

I suppose it's different with the way lobbying works in Canada, M Ps have to do their own dirty work most of the time.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#298: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:26:28 PM

[up] Which explains why Harper's more hands-on than Bush was as president (his Vice President was the one making all the major decisions).

How are the Liberals and Dippers handling the Tories' majority government?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#299: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:30:35 PM

Liberals still need a leader so the current Bob Rae doesn't get much traction. While he makes very good speaking points here and there, people detest his Ontario days. Interestingly, I don't see nearly enough hate for Flaherty for the same but oh wells. Socialists always get way more flak for poor financial responsibility than do right-wingers.

As for NDP, they're undergoing a leadership race. Layton died at a very inopportune time and that really was a great loss to Canadian politics. I think he was just starting to make his true mark.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#300: Jan 5th 2012 at 11:45:05 PM

If Layton lived, how good do you think his chances would've been if he went up against Harper in an election?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

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