Mission
Comment out Zero Context Examples and leave this comment note on the page itself:%% Administrivia/ZeroContextExample entries are not allowed on wiki pages. All such entries have been commented out. Add context to the entries before uncommenting them.
Edited to be a thread header.
Edited by nombretomado on Mar 3rd 2019 at 6:12:58 AM
Not Self-Explanatory will answer your objection. Really, if you can't think of a single sentence about why X is important than it is most likely incidental and doesn't mean anything, therefore, not a trope.
Older Than Radio has many trope examples that are just "work title," without explanation. I'm only coming to the forum because it's impossible any single troper would know all of these well enough to write the examples for all of them.
Music.Kurt Cobain has a few commented-out examples.
Literature.Jane Eyre needs help as well — I already started to work on that page, but I would appreciate any help. (The Good King is still on my to do list, I was distracted by other things on the wiki and in RL as well.)
Does anybody have ideas what to do with Roleplay pages?
Those that I have run into are all terrible, almost witout exceptions. They are littered with Zero-context examples. People who wrote tem do not update them and they seem to suffer from the misconception that trope names and their obscure characters' names are self-explanatory.
Sorry about that rant—- I would like to cutlist them all, if not all, then most of all.
Commenting them out seems like too hard work for nothing, because who is gonna uncomment them?
Anyway, I commented out Roleplay.Ilasgoc. Anybody willing to do Characters.Ilasgoc?
So this "trope", which is more an index than anything, Needs Wiki Magic Love has tons of commented out examples. They were only commented out since there was no basic description of what there is to fix, by Crossover-Enthusiast about a year ago. The question is, should we just uncomment them out, or only have them uncommented with a description of what needs to be done?
Jamespolk started uncommenting them out before even asking what we should do, which isn't a good thing to do at this point. It's not a literal index, so commenting them out a year ago was understandable, even if not well-thought out as much as it could be.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.I uncommented a few out, then stopped out of fear of getting a nastygram (and because there are so damn many titles hidden).
Context is not relevant on that page and the ZCE rule should not apply. The whole point of that index is to list pages—works, people, what have you—that need help. If someone sees something, they can follow the link and decide what to do about a page. If a listing is commented out, no one will ever see it, no one will follow the link, and no one will ever fix that page. Defeats the whole purpose of the list.
I've been meaning to post here for help with Twin Banter, which has so many ZCE's I seriously worried that I'd turn the article until a stub commenting them out. I started trying to fill out the issue with a surprisingly large number of un crossed wicks, but haven't gotten far in it just yet. I've included requests in edit reasons where the quick was just as zero context as the page entry to add to both if/when more is put in.
Also, on a Wiki Walk, I came across Manga.I Dream Of Mimi, which is so bad re: ZCE's that when I uncommented then all out it reduced the total number of Tropes to seven (and I tend to be generous about what constitutes context)
edited 4th Dec '17 11:08:08 PM by sgamer82
Since few people have responded to the Needs Wiki Magic Love page, I'd like to throw my two cents in.
Commenting out pages with "zero context" on that list defeats the purpose of those pages being added in the first place. That action should be treated like someone cutting an example from the page, and if they do so before the job for that page is done, they should get a PM about it. That said, a ZCE notifier should be sent to whoever adds something to the list without explaining the problem.
Both the comment-out-er and the ZCE-adder are doing something wrong, imo.
This being an "internal" page meant for editors to use in order to make the wiki better, I think it's not necessary to treat this page as if it were a works page or a trope page. It isn't even an index. It's... a "helper" page? If I were to categorize this page into something for future reference, I'd call it a helper page.
Essentially, I think the entries with zero context should be allowed to stay without being "commented out."
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they prettyAgree 100%.
As far as work pages with too many ZCEs, remember that it's often a good idea to check "What Links Here". Especially with older work pages (made before some of our policies were formalized or properly enforced), it's common to find the context on the trope page only. And a quick glance at the Related page will tell you whether this possibility is worth investigating.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.I did a bit of that with Twin Banter but finding there's almost no crosswicking for Mimi so I'll try and do what I can.
I think the folders ought to also be commented out. They just look like empty folders otherwise.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they prettyI confess I wasn't sure what to do with that. I didn't know folders could be commented out. I can't right this second but I will once I have a few minutes.
Also, please don't remove the "*" mark-up. It can make things confusing if you're commenting out sub-bullets (which you did). Also, please be conscious of indentation issues. This was an issue with the Robert A. Heinlein entry, which had three sub-bullets but two were commented out, leaving an orphaned sub-bullet.
That said, I fixed these issues I brought up. dwai
edited 5th Dec '17 12:38:59 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they prettySorry. I'd always been under the impression the %%'s fully replaced the *'s.
I will bear all that in mind going forward.
edited 5th Dec '17 12:41:45 PM by sgamer82
Honestly, I'm just working off an assumption, too. I just think it's confusing to take out the bullets when there are sub-bullets involved.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they prettyI have a question. Would an example like this count as a ZCE?
- The Ditz: His defining characteristic.
I just cleared up a bunch of these in another page, so I'll say yes. Basically it says there trope is there but doesn't say how.
Is he a ditz because he's absent minded? An idiot? Has Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!, etc?
Other page, btw, is GE - Good Ending. A troper undid the commenting out, but it comes off as an attempt to add context without knowing what counts as context. I've sent them a notifier and a more detailed PM besides so we'll see how that goes.
edited 11th Dec '17 10:34:43 AM by sgamer82
Yes, that is almost a textbook zero context example. All it does is assert that the trope applies to a particular character. It has exactly nothing to show how the trope is being used.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.Codiekitty was pretty much filled entirely with Zero Context Examples all of which I've commented out leaving the page blank apart from the work page description.
edited 12th Dec '17 1:43:26 PM by Anddrix
Found a ZCE loaded page in Myst. I've plugged up a few, which, along with spoiler violations, were reported here as well.
edited 15th Dec '17 1:41:17 AM by jameygamer
There's a Zero Context Example for President Evil on Time Crisis. It was commented out, then commented back in in August. I'm not commenting it back out until someone gives me a go-ahead to avoid Edit War.
The troper who added it back was already edit-warring. However, I'd probably start with a PM and give them an opportunity to correct their own mistake before escalating to ATT.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.He restored a bunch of ZCEs to that page in August. They were recommented out by Ferot_Dreadnaught, and There Aint No Mountain restored the tropes but added descriptions.
I'm sending both of them P Ms just to be safe, pointing them here. I don't think there's a problem, but if they don't respond, I'll put in an ATT query. This is a few months back and it wasn't reported then.
Edit: Sent P Ms.
Elsewhere, I located Clusterfuck, which has a few ZCEs.
edited 17th Dec '17 7:16:46 PM by jameygamer
You invited me here, so here I am. The Time Crisis ZCE thing seems fixed now, and I'm just fixing examples as I see them. Is there anything special you wanted to discuss?
That's the reason many appearance tropes are being scrapped.
Personally, I think there should be a separate category for self-explanatory tropes with little to no variation like appearance ones; pages without examples. Like Omnipresent Tropes.