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Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#151: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:54:35 PM

No, supporting either position without stated reason besides personal preference is unproductive. Liking system Y because of Pros A, B, and C is indeed productive input.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Bluesunnyday Big Scientist from The Blue Lagoon Since: Apr, 2011
Big Scientist
#152: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:56:32 PM

Okay, you want pros and cons?

I like the buttons due to their ease of use. I like the buttons because they were easy to notice. I don't like the new menu because it's hard to notice. I don't like the new menu because it's glitchy. That's what you wanted, right?

Blue Pacific, signing off...
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#153: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:57:19 PM

I think it can be summarised as the buttons being faster, generally more intuitive, and cheerier; the menu is potentially more useful for finding namespaces and reduces clutter.

edited 14th Nov '11 3:58:01 PM by RainehDaze

Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#154: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:57:53 PM

Exactly! smile(Though "glitchy" carries less weight because that can be fixed without a change in form.)

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#155: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:58:29 PM

@Ironeye: The only suggestion I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned is to somehow modify the drop down menu options so that you can open it in a new tab; as is the only way to select an option is to open it in the same tab you're already in. That's my main issue with with new system.

And also the obvious and oft-stated "make it an preference option on the profile".

As far as pros and cons go, the only pro I can think of for the new system is "less clutter". The primary con being that you can't use it to open the page in a new tab. Then again, the sidebar makes the tab thing a non issue.

EDIT: Raineh Daze summed it up pretty well.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:03:35 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Reaction Image Repository
Westrim deep in though- ow! from The land of hoodoos Since: Jan, 2001
deep in though- ow!
#156: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:00:25 PM

Currently, both systems coexisting is exactly what I'm seeing, so it's obviously possible.

"No, supporting either position without stated reason besides personal preference is unproductive. Liking system Y because of Pros A, B, and C is indeed productive input." - Ironeye

The reasons for dislike of the new system and desire for the old have been stated repeatedly. Saying them yet again is counter productive- that's why the last two pages started being about the system that led to this mess, rather than the mess itself.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:04:22 PM by Westrim

I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
AnotherGamer (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:02:14 PM

The sidebar links aren't good either, they just feel detached from the article and blend in too much with the generic links. Why was this change necessary again? Just make it a changeable option like people keep saying.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:03:30 PM by AnotherGamer

Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#158: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:05:29 PM

Note that pages ago the change was made to have the items also listed in the left menu bar so that they could be opened in another tab as usual.

Possible compromise solution: cut down on the number of buttons at the top by restricting it to some small "essential" set, with all other related pages accessible via the menus. Perhaps Discussion, Characters, YMMV, and Trivia?

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
hotrods4ben Browncoat Reaver Since: May, 2010
Browncoat Reaver
#159: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:06:23 PM

I guess having them both is good. Maybe we could just keep the tabs but make them smaller? And keep the awesome/nightmarefuel/whatever thumbnails.

You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything. — Talking Heads, 1977
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#160: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:06:53 PM

Count me in with the crowd that feels that this change wasn't really necessary, especially given some of the issues in Tech Wishlist that haven't been addressed yet (and this is not a plug for my thread, for the record). However, Ironeye's point is valid - once a big change like this is made, it doesn't go away unless it's causing serious problems, and right now this is just really glitchy.

SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#161: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:11:21 PM

Don't see a problem with the sidebar links not being stylized — I had assumed they would be eventually (which is why I was posting about the issue with Sugar Wiki sidebar). I'd like to see the dropdown moved there if the ability to open new tabs from there can be integrated, since that way the maximum of vertical space of the tool is saved (essentially "all") and no feature of the icons set is lost.

What TV Tropes needs is a dashboard!tongue

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#162: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:13:57 PM

I honestly don't have a problem with the drop menu at all.(except for it clearly not working as of yet, but that's not what I mean)

I mean, yes, it's not as noticeable, agreed. On the other hand, it takes off less clutter. An option to choose which style you want is fine, but this would mean that pages are faster to read for people with internet issues as well. Compact, clean, and easy. Not seeing a problem in it at all.

Quest 64 thread
Thnikkafan ? from Faroe Islands (not really) Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
?
#163: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:14:34 PM

I'd like to point out that, for me at least, for the menu and sidebar for the new system, there's nothing that tells whether the page in the sidebar exists or not. All the pages appear to have Quotes, Related, Trivia, etc. in their sidebars, even if they don't actually have those pages. There's no difference format-wise between an option that has a page behind it and one that doesn't.

Seriously, if you want to revamp something with no community feedback or warning, at least make sure the damn thing works first.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:15:37 PM by Thnikkafan

Anyone who assigns themselves loads of character tropes is someone to be worried about.
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#164: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:15:26 PM

Eddie said he has plans to make the existing pages bolded, so that is an upcoming feature.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
DocStrange Sorcerer Supreme from Rhode Island Since: Jan, 2001
Sorcerer Supreme
#165: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:16:34 PM

Sorry if this was already mentioned before, but I'd really like it if the items in that drop down menu could be opened in a new tab. That's honestly my only quarrel with the new menu selection.

It's an extra step to load another tab with the page I want by loading a second tab of, say the work page, so I can get to the YMMV page, or having to open up a tab with a new TV Tropes search.

The YMMV and Trivia pages being only accessable from a drop-down menu that has no ability to open into a new tab may detract newer editors from moving YMMV and Trivia pages off of the mainspace to the special spaces.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:21:37 PM by DocStrange

Stomping on your fingers as you're clinging on to the abyss
rottenvenetic Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#166: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:17:05 PM

  • 1 on the new system being too inconspicuous
  • 1 on the new system not allowing me to open new tabs

just bugs me

CalamityJane from None of your business Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Robosexual
#167: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:17:28 PM

What has begun to bug me now is how Fast Eddie seems to have decided to do this without discussion, alert or any sort of warning. It just suddenly happened, and from what he has said so far he doesn't seem to intend to change that. I find that behavior unfavorable use of authority and/or administration of power over this website.

That was a bad idea and I would like it if Fast Eddie didn't do that again.

Please consider supporting my artwork on Patreon
Thnikkafan ? from Faroe Islands (not really) Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
?
#168: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:24:10 PM

[up] Basically, this.

Unfortunately, he's done it in the past and I haven't seen any signs that say he won't do it again.

Anyone who assigns themselves loads of character tropes is someone to be worried about.
Wulf Gotta trope, dood! from Louisiana Since: Jan, 2001
Gotta trope, dood!
#169: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:31:45 PM

I'll try not to derail to Fast Eddie.

The sidebar links are nice, but would be better above the ad. It's understandable if revenue purposes dictate otherwise, but at present, they're not particularly noticeable.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?
rottenvenetic Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#170: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:37:26 PM

There's now a menu on the right side column which contains the subpages; problem solved as far as I'm concerned. Though that does make the drop down menu a waste of resources... ahh, Unpleasable Fanbase much?

Starry Since: Jun, 2009
#171: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:53:28 PM

[up] No because on my end the icons are messed up like this

Elbruno Mummy Woomy from Chile: Not As Dry As Space! Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Mummy Woomy
#172: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:55:09 PM

[up] Same situation over here.

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#173: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:55:27 PM

@Starry: That is something very recent, it wasn't borked like that four minutes ago. Guess Eddie must be working on something.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#174: Nov 14th 2011 at 4:56:37 PM

@Starry: Yeah, what Silent Reverence said. Eddie's probably fiddling with things, just give it a few minutes.

edited 14th Nov '11 4:56:50 PM by KrisMahai

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Webby Very Manly Muppet Since: Dec, 2010
Very Manly Muppet
#175: Nov 14th 2011 at 5:05:07 PM

The second set of buttons looks awkward. XD I'm assuming it's a glitch, but at first glance I wondered if it was a Take That!, adding too many buttons and doubling the clutter.

I just now noticed that the sidebar eliminates the problem of not being able to open things in new tabs (silly me), but viewing the site without an adblocker it's a big pain to get to.

Actually a girl.

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