I'll save you the trouble of the crowner: it comes out strongly anti-change. How do I know? Because the thread naturally attracts two sorts of people: those who dislike the change and those who like the change and want to report bugs. The only reason to have the crowner is for the people in the former category to go on about how much they outnumber people who submit detailed bug reports disagree with them.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.![]()
So, your problem with the crowner is that you think it would be unfairly flooded with people who dislike the change and are posting in this thread because of it?
I'll let you in on a little secret: it doesn't matter what the majority wants. For better or for worse, the will of the admin can veto anything, particularly on tech matters. Now if Eddie himself puts up a crowner, I will watch it with great interest. But until then, the crowner is just there to make people on one side feel good about how many people are also on their side.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.The sidebar doesn't seem to work right for me. It bugs out by redirecting to a blank "Main" page for each category (i.e. Awesome/Main, Heartwarming/Main, etc.) when I try using it on any of the pages.
Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987I think a lot of the problems with stuff like this would be solved if Eddie would just give a reason...
Given the fact that there are more readers than editors, more editors than forum-viewers, and more forum users than people who post on these threads, the safest bet would probably be to do nothing...
edited 14th Nov '11 3:13:39 PM by RainehDaze
Oh please... that's pathetic, Ironeye. A crowner is not there just for that reason. In particular in the case of multichoice crowners, they allow you to see how things could have done differently if, well, the decisions were consulted beforehand.
Noone is saying "no, Fast Eddie should not have done anything with the subpage stuff". But perhaps if he had asked beforehand to the people who, well, actually use the stuff, we would be saving ourselves some problems and bugs.
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?@Ironeye: I think the main problem here is the perceived lack of input by the community in general when the change was decided. I get that the site is Eddie's and that he can do what he likes with it, but I can see how people would be annoyed that he changed a major component of the site's organization without bothering to inform anyone of the change before he did it, and the fact that as of now, we have now real idea of how many people desired the change.
Especially as even if we made a crowner now, it would be biased due to this thread.
I'm not saying that the change itself is bad, but I think that the community at large should be informed of stuff like this before it's actually implemented.
edited 14th Nov '11 3:23:17 PM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryThe tabs disappearing and reappearing at random for anyone else?
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.@Japanese Teeth: See, that perception is actually part of the problem in the community. Yes, the site is Eddie's (as far as I know). But that does not mean he can do "anything he wants" with it. He's created something that provides a social value that is, very strongly, built by the community. From that point on, he's acquired a social responsibility.
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?@Discar: It's probably just FE debugging it or something.
I never said that it was good that that's true. I fully agree that he should have opened the matter to discussion rather than unilaterally changing it; I'm just trying to not make it sound personal.
edited 14th Nov '11 3:29:31 PM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image Repository@Discar: Yes, but it's probably what Japanese Teeth said.
And I honestly don't think that a vote would be biased if, say, a crowner was made once the buttons and dropdown menus were running simultaneously, and a headline was put out about it. I mean, there aren't that many people in this thread, especially out of the community as a whole.
edited 14th Nov '11 3:28:36 PM by enviroguy
Wide-eyed idealists should just assume by default that life is poised to deal them a crushing blow and plan accordingly, i.e. become cynics.Ugh, and only now had occured to me to test this. Anyway, not a bug of this tool, unless I'm missing something, but still pretty patent:
Unlike normal pages and Darth Wiki pages, Sugar Wiki pages and relates stuff (ie.: Heartwarming tabs) don't get a contrast between the text color or the background, difficulting the task of actually reading the namespace list. I'd guess this is due to the namespace list not getting a contrasting "background-color", unlike the other elements of the sidebar.
EDITed for examples: Eversion versus DarthWiki.Eversion versus SugarWiki.Eversion.
EDIT: ninjask'd by nevermind
edited 14th Nov '11 3:32:51 PM by SilentReverence
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?Fast Eddie may or may not choose to put up a crowner to poll public opinion—that's his prerogative—but we don't really need to argue about what rights he should or should not have as the admin. We could have that conversation, but this thread isn't a useful place to have it. We're here to report bugs and discuss the merits of this change, and there's no point clogging up those useful discussions with grievances about general administrative policy (which, according to the universal laws of the internet, will always come across as They Changed It, Now It Sucks!, regardless of how reasonable or unreasonable they really are).
Problem is that "discussing the merits of the change" is pretty much impossible to separate from "was this change merited/should we change back?", in which case it's basically an argument about whether the change should have been made.
I'm still all for making it a profile option.
edited 14th Nov '11 3:46:49 PM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryDo be precise with what you wish for. If it were just informing everyone early, we'd have this thread, minus the bug reports, only in future tense and with the "didn't consult us" complaints replaced with "wasting valuable resources on this" complaints. See, well, pretty much every "big change is coming" thread we've had. If something's going to get done anyway, it doesn't end up solving any major problems.
What people seem to really want (as some people are actually saying) was a thread to discuss issues with the current setup and suggest solutions. This I do agree with. Unfortunately, that's not the reality we have now. What we have now is the new system, already implemented. If we want something to actually get done, we have to provide detailed bug reports, present possible changes with pros and cons ("Don't like; change it back" doesn't count), and work with Eddie when he does show up.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.The problem is that Fast Eddie seems to change things at a whim. He did it for the CMOA pages, and now he's done it for this. And you know why he does it? Because he knows we're not leaving any time soon. Damn you TV Tropes, for being to addictive for me to boycott for any period of time...
Blue Pacific, signing off...![]()
The context of the specific example was pros and cons of changes to the current system, wherein "everything's perfect" wouldn't even apply. But, since apparently you need me to say it explicitly, no, simply saying that everything is perfect now is also useless.
edited 14th Nov '11 3:50:37 PM by Ironeye
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.Fighteer mentioned having both systems at the same time (or having a profile option) would be difficult, but Eddie never chimed in on that. Would that be unduly difficult? Because I still think that would be a perfect compromise. This system (once the bugs are ironed out) has merits, but I still prefer the old one, and would like to be able to use both if possible.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.

I like the menu idea in theory, but it'd probably be better implemented as a popup menu with regular links(can those have icons?). There should definitely still be buttons for the important subpages, though.
@enviroguy: Anybody can make a crowner, but only mods can link them to threads.
Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan