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Should We Clone Extinct Animals?

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice. Since: Jul, 2011
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
#26: Nov 12th 2011 at 1:09:20 PM

It depends on why they are extinct and why you are cloning them.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#27: Nov 12th 2011 at 1:47:09 PM

A megalodon probably wouldn't be able to survive because of a lack of food. Big predators need big prey.

RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#28: Nov 12th 2011 at 1:55:01 PM

I don't think it'd be wrong.

It might shake up the ecosystem if they were re-introduced, but that doesn't equal bad. B'sides, anything they wipe out could just be cloned again.

edited 12th Nov '11 1:55:24 PM by RTaco

Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#29: Nov 12th 2011 at 2:42:39 PM

[up][up] Indeed, and in any case we can't even have their modern relatives, the Gret White Shark and the Makkos, in captivity, so a Megalodon wouldn't be able to live anywhere.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#30: Nov 12th 2011 at 2:46:23 PM

Whales are plenty endangered on their own... Reintroducing the Megalodon would be a huge dick move: A few decades later, we wouldn't have no whales (it ate'em for brunch). A few months later, we wouldn't have no megalodons either, so it's a no-win (even if making a megalodon could be described as a win to begin with).

edited 13th Nov '11 12:47:35 PM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
MyGodItsFullofStars Since: Feb, 2011
#31: Nov 12th 2011 at 2:59:34 PM

Neanderthals, like wooly mammoths, went extinct recently enough that DNA is recoverable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_genome_project

Basically, if we can find bones or mummified tissues from an animal that died within the last 100,000 years that are in good condition, it is possible to recover some DNA. Insects trapped in amber also do contain DNA, but it has degraded to the point by random mutations that it is no longer serviceable (so no luck with bringing back a dinosaur using blood from the guts of mosquitoes).

I expect that we will see a wooly mammoth get cloned in the near future, since they've found some excellent specimens frozen in Siberia, and they are similar enough to modern elephants that we could use an indian elephant's womb as host. A Japanese team claims that they should have a living mammoth within six years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#Genetics_and_possibilities_for_cloning

JTIsCool Since: Dec, 1969
#32: Nov 12th 2011 at 3:09:58 PM

Savage@Yeah,also I think we would make beaches even more unsafer plus what makes you think that the Megalodons might watn to chow down on other sharks.Heck,I think tiger sharks and great whites would swim away in fear of a Megalodon.

Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#33: Nov 12th 2011 at 4:32:34 PM

It's not like sharks kill many people anyway, and since Megalodon was pelagic it'd pose no risk to people in shallow waters.

Quit making sharks look like they're worse than their sociopathic cetacean neighbours.

edited 12th Nov '11 4:33:58 PM by Gannetwhale

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
AmusedTroperGuy Since: Sep, 2010
#34: Nov 13th 2011 at 12:26:28 PM

Only those that went extincted by human's action. The ecosystem hasn't changed that much in man's time, so maybe they would adapt quickly (that, and the plus of making some atonement for being responsibles for the death of a whole specie). The animals exticted by natural means are out of the questions; they extinguished for a reason, after all.

However, that could create a feeling of Death Is Cheap, which would probably lead to more indiscriminate hunting or things like that (after all, those people would say to themselves, "if they can be cloned back, why bother trying to conserve them?"), so...

SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#35: Nov 13th 2011 at 12:46:24 PM

Sustainable hunting is part of conservation... In fact, the sale of hunting licenses oftentimes funds conservation efforts in many civilized countries.

There's bag limits and a price to pay in order to hunt... But those limits ensure there continues to be a population to hunt off.

edited 13th Nov '11 12:47:10 PM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
JTIsCool Since: Dec, 1969
#36: Nov 13th 2011 at 12:52:57 PM

In my head I could see many possible outcomes if we don't choose which animals to clone carefully because I do not want a big prehistoric monster in the ocean.The ocean is a scary place already whu do you want to amke it even more worse.

JTIsCool Since: Dec, 1969
#38: Nov 13th 2011 at 1:08:11 PM

queer@No! Because I don't want a T-Rex terrorizing my town if they actually built a park like that.Plus it would be a Too Dumb to Live move by humanity.

HellmanSabian Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#40: Nov 13th 2011 at 1:43:46 PM

Well there are animal we should definitly cloned back into existence... Like that Australian fox that was hunted to extintion.

And certain species of Fishes and Whales.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#41: Nov 13th 2011 at 2:46:37 PM

If you can put their extinction solidly down to human dickishness, go ahead and clone them. They probably won't have become potentially invasive species in the time since the Portuguese killed all the dodos.

EDIT: There WAS a carnivore niche in Australia? Holy god, yes, bring that back.

edited 13th Nov '11 2:47:15 PM by DomaDoma

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MyGodItsFullofStars Since: Feb, 2011
#42: Nov 13th 2011 at 3:16:11 PM

[up]It wasn't the Portuguese so much as their rats, pigs, and dogs.

And yes, Australia once had several badass marsupial carnivores. Thylacines, marsupial lions, giant lizards...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsupial_lion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varanus_priscus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine

There's also one extent marsupial carnivore: the Tasmanian Devil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_devil

Yuval Since: May, 2013
#43: Nov 13th 2011 at 5:49:00 PM

Thylacines were reportedly gentle, shy animals that avoided human settlements. They rarely took down living sheep or cows, posed much less risk to chickens than foxes or feral cats, and wouldn't come close enough to houses to be a threat to housepets; all in all, they were very much an undeserved victim of white settlers and their total disregard for Australia's unique ecosystem. They could also be kept as pets.

Tasmania is still mostly clear of foxes, which would be the biggest obstacles to a replenished thylacine population (besides dingoes, which are only found on the mainland and Fraser Island), and their ecological niche is still there for them to fill. There is no reason not to bring them back.

I'll leave the discussion on cloning dinosaurs to others.

Edit: I also think that the human race is currently in its final few centuries of existence because of overpopulation and environmental degradation. Once we're extinct, the world will restore itself in time back to how it was before unless we manage to really fuck things up (full destruction of the biosphere from a nuclear war or something similar); I think that if we're not willing to solve the problems we have, we have an obligation to try to repair some of our damage before we all die, and that includes bringing back some of the species we wiped out if it's at all possible to do so.

edited 13th Nov '11 5:55:17 PM by Yuval

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#44: Nov 13th 2011 at 6:01:55 PM

I don't think we have any kind of obligation to "repair the damage". That's overestimating ourselves quite a bit. Ultimately, we're animals too. We couldn't kill off rats or cockroaches if we tried. What we do is as natural and destructive as photosynthesis. Yes, the environment will change significantly, no, there is no moral value attached to that.

We do have certain selfish reasons for preserving biodiversity though.

edited 13th Nov '11 6:02:21 PM by Clarste

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#45: Nov 13th 2011 at 6:57:06 PM

...even if making a megalodon could be described as a win to begin with...

Not even just one, to put in a gigantic tank? You could feed it politicians who try to infringe on people's civil rights! cool[lol]

Yeah... recently extinct animals could be safely cloned, as well as animals that are nearly extinct but still holding on. Really ancient shit, like dinosaurs or Ice Age mammals or whatever... yeah, don't bother, because it won't last long in the modern age.

I am now known as Flyboy.
MarkerMage World Ends Oct 21, 2011 from My own little world Since: Aug, 2009
World Ends Oct 21, 2011
#46: Nov 13th 2011 at 10:27:04 PM

I would support the cloning of a T-rex (or some other carnivorous dinosaur) on the condition that it is kept near the Creation Museum. Why a carnivorous dinosaur? Why near to a museum dedicated to teaching creationism? Because they depict dinosaurs with sharp claws and sharp teeth as being vegetarians. Kids would learn facts about the T-rex and see that it doesn't eat plants, but meat. And it probably wouldn't be long before the Darwin Awards website would get some stories about the place.

So clone the extinct species to help with education!

Thinking of ideas to use with a literary work that is meant to be WikiWalked through.
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#47: Nov 14th 2011 at 3:02:32 AM

They should also clone a Fasolachus, an allosaur sized relative of crocodiles, to prove to the cretoards that dinosaurs weren't the only prehistoric animals, and that their ideas don't work on species they don't know.

edited 14th Nov '11 3:03:36 AM by Gannetwhale

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#48: Nov 23rd 2011 at 4:01:39 AM

Ha! We already did it!!!!

Score one point for science. Suck on that God!! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/4409958/Extinct-ibex-is-resurrected-by-cloning.html

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#49: Nov 23rd 2011 at 4:47:26 AM

Recovering the DNA is only a part of the problem. An embryo is more than a vehicle for some DNA code: if you put kangaroo DNA into a single-celled frog embryo you don't get a kangaroo embryo, you get something that does not have a chance in hell of surviving.

Also, you need to find some way to let the embryo develop in an environment which is as similar as possible to the original one.

If some similar enough species is still living, you can probably work around these issues somehow, although I expect that not to be trivial; but for long-extinct species with no surviving close relatives, chances of success are very slim.

EDIT:

I also think that the human race is currently in its final few centuries of existence because of overpopulation and environmental degradation. Once we're extinct, the world will restore itself in time back to how it was before unless we manage to really fuck things up (full destruction of the biosphere from a nuclear war or something similar);
I doubt this very much. The human species is widespread, extremely hardy, and with a penchant for cheating at the survival game.

We are not invincible, obviously; but an event, human-generated or not, which kills us all would have to be of a magnitude comparable to that of the Great Dying — the biggest extinction event so far, and one which offed 83% of all existent genera.

Life would survive in some form, probably; but it would take millions of years for the Earth to recover, and the species which would evolve would almost certainly be near-completely different from the ones which existed so far.

edited 23rd Nov '11 5:05:30 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#50: Nov 23rd 2011 at 11:23:50 PM

yeah, don't fuck with the permian. it'll kick your ass. Somthing about walls of magma spewing up across the horizon being the most memorable.

also, I don't see why we shouldn't clone small numbers of extinct species, For Science!

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