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Ongoing European Debt Crisis

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LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#4276: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:12:52 PM

[up][up][up] It is, and that's sad. Because it's not like the Greek people didn't search for better alternatives the last few years.

We changed governments God-knows-how-many-times, we tried our luck with technocrats (Papademos), we broke the two-party system and, for the first time in the country's history, brought a left-leaning party into power.

Nothing came out of it. Kept stumbling from disappointment to disappointment. We've reached a point where the only remaining "options" are Golden Dawn and KKE.

[up][up] Thing is, I've seen people bring up the past governments of PASOK and New Democracy (centre-right and neocons respectively) as examples of " the failure of socialism". Socialism, damn it.

edited 21st Aug '15 2:18:37 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#4277: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:26:06 PM

What was the logic behind not simply realising that the Eurozone command weren't going to relent and voting to leave the Euro in the referendum?

Plus there's always the option of electing a goverment that doesn't ask for bailouts but instead asks for debt reductions/deferment.

edited 21st Aug '15 2:28:06 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4278: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:27:25 PM

Fear of being unable to pull it off without unimaginable domestic catastrophe, I'd guess.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#4279: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:28:32 PM

"unimaginable domestic catastrophe" Because that's not happening as is in Greece?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#4281: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:37:16 PM

Evil Krugman

For fun.


In other news, EU's 2016 stress test will include 50-60 euro zone banks.

edited 21st Aug '15 2:38:20 PM by Quag15

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#4282: Aug 21st 2015 at 2:44:32 PM

Plus there's always the option of electing a goverment that doesn't ask for bailouts but instead asks for debt reductions/deferment.

Funny thing is, SYRIZA was supposed to be that. But it was a faint hope. A debt relief is, at this point, out of the question.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#4283: Aug 21st 2015 at 4:51:46 PM

I keep waiting for the Greek Army to say "fuck this" and seize power again, like the good ol days.

Not gonna happen, since it will make things worse, but if the fascists and communists are all that remain standing, it won't be long where the economic crisis takes a backburner to civil war....

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#4284: Aug 21st 2015 at 5:01:51 PM

Civil Wars are too 20th century. Nowdays, modern countries in Europe wreck themselves by declaring bankruptcy.

edited 21st Aug '15 5:02:08 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#4285: Aug 21st 2015 at 10:22:44 PM

Essentially, Tsipras' problem is that he forgot that he wasn't in France, where openly lying to and then ignoring the voters is considered acceptable behavior.

I do seriously wonder, though. Would a far left-far right coalition work in Greece right now?

@Logo P: Ironically, Die Linke has the plain name it does in part to distinguish itself from its grandfather, the Socialist Unity Party of Germany - also known as East Germany's governing party. And because of that heritage, they're still iced out of any possible federal coalition government - the SPD would rather form a coalition with the CDU than let the Left in, and even the Greens want nothing to do with them.

Essentially, the only way the Left is getting into government is through winning a majority - the CDU, Greens, SDP, and (if they still exist) the FDP would all rather band together than give Die Linke any influence over the federal government - the only possible coalition DL might be involved in would be a similar pact against the National Democrats.

edited 21st Aug '15 10:28:46 PM by Ramidel

LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#4286: Aug 22nd 2015 at 1:06:20 AM

So they are like the communists in Russia, only more self-aware?

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#4287: Aug 22nd 2015 at 2:44:46 AM

Not quite. The Communists in Russia are not really a successor to the CPSU, nor are they seen as such, nor are they cordoned out of the government (not that United Russia needs a cordon sanitaire because, y'know, Putin is the House).

The actual Bolsheviks in Russia are the Left Front, which is an outlawed party.

edited 22nd Aug '15 2:46:45 AM by Ramidel

GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#4288: Aug 22nd 2015 at 5:24:18 AM

@4276

How about cutting out the Greek proxies of the Troika? Let the Troika take responsibility for Greece by directly appointing a government for Greece. tongue Said government would not be allowed to leave the country until the worst of the mess is fixed.

Lazy and pathetic.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4289: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:21:37 AM

[up]In other words, annexing Greece, making it the first puppet state of the New European Empire? I think not.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#4290: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:26:11 AM

[up]

You are treating annexation and puppet state like buzzwords.

Lazy and pathetic.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#4291: Aug 22nd 2015 at 7:44:28 AM

It would be the most honest aproch. The Greek government keeps acting like it has control over Greece's finances, it doesn't and they need to stop pretending. If the Troika want to be in charge of Greece then it can be in charge of Greece, the whole kit and kaboodle.

If economic policy is being decided by the Troika then they're effectively running Greece as is, why not make it official?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#4292: Aug 22nd 2015 at 8:24:10 AM

That's the way it is for a lot of small countries, though. Many of them have their policies effectively dictated from abroad, like pre-revolutionary Cuba.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#4293: Aug 22nd 2015 at 9:33:37 AM

Thing is, I've seen people bring up the past governments of PASOK and New Democracy (centre-right and neocons respectively) as examples of " the failure of socialism". Socialism, damn it.

To an American Republican, everyone else is a socialist.

Re Die Linke: Haven't they been in coalitions at the municipal level? I thought the main issues was that they're only popular in East Germany and Saarland.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#4294: Aug 22nd 2015 at 9:46:58 AM

[up]

They are only pariahs at federal level.

Lazy and pathetic.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#4295: Aug 22nd 2015 at 10:06:25 AM

I'm with Silas on this one. It's more honest, and to add to his point, they have to actually deal with the consequences of their actions instead of blaming the hapless local politicians.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#4296: Aug 22nd 2015 at 10:35:54 AM

[up][up][up] They're part of Brandenburg's government at the moment - we have a Linke/SPD coalition, to the chagrin of the federal SPD. Our federal social democrats despise Die Linke and always decline even to negotiate forming a coalition with them - mostly because the SPD on the federal level is just CDU 2.0 these days and a coalition with Die Linke would force them to actually listen to their electorate for once.tongue

We also have one Bundesland with a leftist Minister-President - Thuringia, I think.

Also: A large part of today's Die Linke are disgruntled former SPD members who left the party because of Schröder's politics.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#4297: Aug 22nd 2015 at 12:10:40 PM

The problem with Die Linke on a federal level is their dogmatic foreign policy concept. They are against any military intervention abroad (which also includes helping e.g. the Kurds against IS), want Germany to leave the Nato, and are shameless Putin sympathizer.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#4298: Aug 22nd 2015 at 12:16:03 PM

I still hope that some government includes them as a junior partner, resulting in the federal party "maturing". They're probably the only electable opposition party we have left.

Maybe Mutti makes them her junior partners when the SPD comes crashing down in the next election.

edited 22nd Aug '15 12:16:32 PM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#4299: Aug 22nd 2015 at 12:16:39 PM

[up][up]

Nothing wrong with favoring an alternative foreign policy.

edited 22nd Aug '15 12:16:54 PM by GrandPrincePaulII

Lazy and pathetic.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#4300: Aug 22nd 2015 at 12:26:38 PM

@ Zarastro: That's more or less and same foreign policy as the rest of the European Left (not Centre-Left). Certainly sounds similar to what Jeremy Corbyn is saying here in the Labour leadership Elections.

Keep Rolling On

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