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DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#651: Jul 14th 2015 at 6:53:20 PM

Nit pick, but the Congress has to vote in support of the treaty for it to pass. If they fail to support it, it wont take effect (from our point of view anyway). Obama cant veto a vote that failed to pass something.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#652: Jul 14th 2015 at 7:05:17 PM

[up] Good point, but the news said something about Obama being able to wield veto power against opponents of the deal.

Congress beings to review the treaty

Mr. Obama would veto a resolution of disapproval, and the opponents could derail the agreement only if they could rally the required two-thirds vote of Congress to override his action. Found the source of the Veto bit.

Congress can pass a resolution of approval, one of disapproval, or do nothing.

edited 14th Jul '15 7:06:04 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#653: Jul 14th 2015 at 7:29:56 PM

I've been doing some research. Apparently the Senate can pass the treaty but add amendments that change the substance. In this case, that would presumably take the form of Republicans gutting the treaty by adding extra conditions that Iran would never agree to. In that case, Obama would indeed veto.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Parable State of Mind from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
State of Mind
#654: Jul 14th 2015 at 9:06:23 PM

What would vetoing a resolution of disapproval even mean? It still wouldn't go into effect unless they said yes.

"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#655: Jul 14th 2015 at 9:49:17 PM

This isn't a treaty though, it's an agreement. Now Congress could vote to reimpose sanctions but that's just talk when Obama's going to veto it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Beware the Crazy Man. from Ivalice, apparently Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Beware the Crazy Man.
#656: Jul 14th 2015 at 11:08:31 PM

@Jack - You aren't listening to me. I said they don't need to send MONEY to Assad. Whatever they're gonna spend on him, they already have that calculated. They weren't banking on negotiations with a nation as mercurial as the US for them to take into account for their Assad plans. That has nothing to do with them being rational actors. It has to do with what is needed in the here and now for their interests in Syria...and it isn't money.

Also, I'm not treating Iran like their poor and misunderstood. I'm treating them like a normal nation, which you are NOT doing. And your scare quotes still don't make sense because thats not what rational actor means in the context of international affairs.

edited 14th Jul '15 11:08:48 PM by FFShinra

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
bjuandy Since: Dec, 2014
#657: Jul 15th 2015 at 2:54:15 AM

From what I have seen of this deal, the US has accepted that Iran will continue to grow as a power in the region, something that all the critics from Saudi Arabia and the UAE to Israel don't want to happen. The deal seems to me to be the US trying to direct that growth into something besides a nuclear weapon. For everyone saying that the US caved in, I would ask what would be the alternative, because the only way I can see how Iran's growth stymied is through war, something I don't think would be profitable for anyone involved.

As for the human rights violations, the US has made plenty of deals with the devil before, and the hope has always been that more good will come from that deal instead of bad. Overall, I think the deal does make a war between the US and Iran less likely.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#658: Aug 17th 2015 at 7:01:52 AM

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has stated that the nuclear deal will not open Iran to American influence.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#659: Sep 13th 2015 at 2:01:24 AM

Iran claims to have discovered an unexpectedly large uranium deposit, and will soon begin extraction of the uranium.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#660: Oct 2nd 2015 at 7:19:54 AM

Cross posted from the Israel and Palestine thread: Bibi has slammed the Iranian nuclear deal in a speech to the UN

UNITED NATIONS—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday delivered a fiery address here condemning the Iranian nuclear deal, largely unbowed in his opposition despite losing steep political ground to President Barack Obama over the issue this year.

In his speech to the General Assembly, Mr. Netanyahu thundered that Iranian threats to destroy Israel have been met in the world body by “utter silence, deafening silence.”

He then stopped speaking for 45 seconds, panning the hall with a furrowed glare.

“Perhaps you can now understand why Israel is not joining you in celebrating this deal,” he said.

The nuclear deal, reached in July between Iran and six world powers including the U.S., passed a crucial milestone when the U.S. Congress failed to adopt a resolution of disapproval that essentially could have blocked the deal from moving forward.

Mr. Netanyahu had thrown his support behind congressional opponents of the deal, delivering a controversial speech to Congress in March and meeting repeatedly with U.S. lawmakers.

After Mr. Netanyahu’s political loss, the White House sees him as wielding less influence over the president’s agenda.

Inside the White House, officials have come to expect forceful rhetoric from Mr. Netanyahu, especially at a high-profile platform such as the U.N.

While the Israeli leader’s public denunciations have long irked Mr. Obama’s advisers, the president’s political victory on the Iran deal has blunted the impact of Mr. Netanyahu’s criticism.

“The president is proud of the strong relationship between our two countries, and the unshakable bond when it comes to our commitment to Israel’s security,” White House press secretary Josh Earnest said on Thursday, when asked about the address.

Although as critical as ever, Mr. Netanyahu appeared to be careful in the address to maintain his ties with the U.S., something Israeli voters value.

His acknowledgment that the deal constrains Iran’s program, even if only for 10 to 15 years, indicates his desire to “change the channel” on the adversarial nature of his relationship with Mr. Obama, said Aaron David Miller, a former Middle East negotiator now at the Wilson Center.

“I suspect the psychological adjustment means that he’s accepted the fact that, if this was a win-lose situation, the president has won,” said Mr. Miller. “He is now forced to acquiesce in the implementation of the accord.”

Tamara Cofman Wittes, a former State Department official in the Obama administration now at the Brookings Institution, said despite tough words about the Iran deal, Mr. Netanyahu emphasized common ground with Mr. Obama in addressing Iran’s destabilizing behavior and enforcing the deal. This acceptance could help move efforts to boost security ties forward, she said.

“There are a number of agenda items for the U.S. and Israel that were kind of on hold because Netanyahu was so invested in all out opposition to the nuclear deal,” Ms. Wittes said.

As part of the White House effort to reduce tensions, administration officials have intensified outreach to American Jewish leaders and groups supportive of Israel, and Mr. Obama plans to meet with Mr. Netanyahu in Washington in October.

A senior administration official on Thursday said the White House hopes the meeting will close the chapter on several years of toxic relations between the two leaders.

Still, Mr. Netanyahu’s supporters don’t see the debate over the nuclear agreement as over. U.S. lawmakers are drafting new legislation to target Iran’s support for international militant groups and to limit the ability of foreign companies to invest in Iran.

Much of the congressional debate over Iran is focused on trying to dry up funding for Iran’s elite military unit, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which dominates the Iranian economy.

Israeli officials and many Iran watchers in Washington say they believe there is a high likelihood that Iran will cheat on the nuclear agreement, and that the West must be prepared to move quickly with punishments if it does.

“The next phase is not just enforcing the nuclear accord, strictly, but putting in place new mechanisms to guard against the cancer of Iran spreading across the region,” said Josh Block, president of The Israeli Project, which campaigned against the nuclear deal.

Arab officials also have sharply criticized Iran during the General Assembly, including diplomats from Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, Adel al-Jubeir, publicly campaigned against Russian involvement in Syria, in part, because Moscow is now aligned with Tehran.

“Iran is an occupying force in Syria,” Mr. al-Jubeir said on Tuesday.

The agreement between Iran and the six world powers—the U.S., U.K., Germany, France, China, and Russia—will gradually lift U.N. and U.S. sanctions on Iran in return for stringent controls on Iran’s nuclear program to keep it from developing a nuclear weapon.

Mr. Netanyahu took issue with Obama administration arguments that the deal will prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons and vowed to take action if necessary.

“I know that preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons remains the official policy of the international community,” he said in his address. “But no one should question Israel’s determination to defend itself against those who seek our destruction.”

With eventual sanctions relief, Iran will increase its war chest to supply militant groups in the region, Mr. Netanyahu said. Mr. Obama has acknowledged that this could be a drawback of the deal, but said it was an unfortunate consequence of getting Iran to place those constraints on its program.

Mr. Netanyahu said differences with Mr. Obama were “within the family,” praising the U.S. as Israel’s most steadfast ally.

The prime minister’s speech didn’t sway his critics in Israel who have often heard him playing up the Iran threat, said Yehudit Auerbach, a political scientist at the Tel Aviv-based Bar Ilan University.

“Bibi haters won’t become Bibi lovers,” she said.

Ms. Auerbach said that while the nuclear deal had ushered in a new status quo for countries in Europe and the Middle East that were trying to build commercial and economic ties with Iran, Mr. Netanyahu wasn’t backing off efforts to frame Iran as a danger to Israel and the world.

“Bibi says ‘beware,’ but I don’t think people will listen,” she added. “The deal is done.”

—Felicia Schwartz at the United Nations and Rory Jones in Jerusalem contributed to this article.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#661: May 8th 2018 at 6:35:47 PM

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180509_05/

Well Trump has got his wish.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#662: May 8th 2018 at 11:02:00 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/here-are-iran-sanctions-returning-after-trump-leaves-nuclear-deal.html

Bumping this since the article has some info on what sanctions are going to be enforced against Iran.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
AlityrosThePhilosopher from Over There Since: Jan, 2018
#663: May 9th 2018 at 1:24:49 AM

Forgive me for not addressing present events all that much.

As we know no person or persons are equal to their rhetoric, because humans are fallible.
There’s a vast difference however, between failing to live up to one’s words, and knowingly and willingly having one’s deeds opposing one’s words. Otherwise known as lying.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has always been opposed to using non-conventional weapons as a matter of principle, it hasn’t expressed any change in its views. Here’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei’s official stance on the matter:
Khamenei.ir - 'Nuclear energy for all, nuclear weapons for none': Ayatollah Khamenei, Apr 9, 2017

Maybe it’s like in some version of Civilization where your opponents plead you to let go of the Nuke plague until their words “are now backed by nuclear weapons”; And Iran hasn’t gotten them yet.

As for the sanctions, I wouldn’t be surprised if Dear Supreme Leader actually welcomed them.

Just as my freedom ends where yours begins my tolerance of you ends where your intolerance toward me begins. As told by an old friend
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#664: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:46:47 PM

Seems like Trump is willing to renegotiate the deal with Tehran to end the crisis, but Tehran doesn't buy it.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#665: Aug 4th 2018 at 12:49:11 AM

[up] Can you blame them? Trump has repeatedly proven to be untrustworthy and everyone else is sticking to the original deal.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#666: Aug 4th 2018 at 4:22:52 PM

AFP reports protests in the country due to the rial falling, although it also includes growing hate for the Supreme Leader.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Izeinsummer Since: Jan, 2015
#667: Aug 5th 2018 at 1:23:25 AM

There was nothing unexpected about Iran having large uranium reserves. There are entire provinces of the country that have enormously elevated back ground radiation due to local geology. That this would turn out to include large ore deposits comes under the heading of "Well, obviously".

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#668: Aug 5th 2018 at 1:27:37 AM

I think that maybe Iran needs to have a serious discussion with itself about how to manage the economy and to stop wonking about Syria/Trump. One has the distinct impression that their foreign and domestic policies are greatly overtaxing its financial means.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#669: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:52:27 AM

Sanctions are now back in business.

And the protests are now escalating.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#670: Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:20:14 PM

November 5 is getting close and Trump posted a memetic image from Game of Thrones.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#671: Nov 5th 2018 at 5:51:06 PM

Washington has allowed eight countries to have Iranian oil on the condition that they'll reduce using them or remove dependence on them.

Most reports named China, India, Italy, Greece, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Turkey.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#672: Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:45:33 PM

The sanction exemptions of Iranian oil is already ending.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#673: May 8th 2019 at 6:08:05 PM

Iran now has plans to enrich uranium once again.

And the US Navy has sent the USS Lincoln to the Persian Gulf.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Oruka Since: Dec, 2018
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#675: Jun 21st 2019 at 7:01:06 AM

Reading back on the first page of this thread, I'm extremely thankful that a rational, common sense president like Obama was elected in 2008, instead of having the wishes of war hawks like Mc Cain and John Bolton come true.

Life is unfair...

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