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batter from Singapore Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#526: Jul 5th 2014 at 3:17:18 AM

[up][up]Actually shouldn't OP be shooting the spark? The life essence and memories thing is pretty inconsistent sometimes.

Also his mind wasn't exactly at it's best when he sprouted the Kill Em All line.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#527: Jul 5th 2014 at 8:24:25 AM

From what I gather, Transformers in most franchises have three death means: Overhwhelming physical damage (a.k.a someone blows you the fuck up), spark destruction, and beheading.

A shot to the head does its duty well.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#528: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:46:36 AM

Yeah, across the various incarnations its pretty vague on how a Transformer can be killed. Ironhide in the '86 movie went down after one hit from Megatron, with smoke coming out of his mouth. These movies treat it as basically "tear as much as you can from their body until they stop moving."

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#529: Jul 5th 2014 at 3:04:14 PM

Just saw the movie.

Aside from the length, what exactly did the critics hate about the movie exactly?

Grahf Since: Jan, 2001
#530: Jul 5th 2014 at 3:51:23 PM

Even not liking the movie, I honestly think that a lot of the hate that critics that have been negative about it has been directed more at Bay himself then the film. There's a lot of bitterness seemingly over the fact that the other films did so well.

When there is actual criticism of the film it's mostly about the length, the disparate plot elements, under usage of the Dinobots, etc. etc.

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#531: Jul 5th 2014 at 4:59:17 PM

What'd y'all think of Lockdown?

#IceBearForPresident
Grahf Since: Jan, 2001
#532: Jul 5th 2014 at 5:09:54 PM

I liked him, I wish he would have lived to be in another film.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#533: Jul 5th 2014 at 5:44:34 PM

Between him and Attinger I think the movie had a more than satisfactory bad guy quotient. Either of them by themselves might have been underwhelming, but together there was enough uncertainty and danger that made things exciting.

My personal feelings about the quality of the movie is basically the same as ROTF and DOTM, unnecessarily long running time, but for different reasons. ROTF had a very unfocused plot but a few standout sequences, so a shorter running time would trim the flaws and let those good moments stand out more. DOTM had more than enough story for the running time, but there was almost too much plot and too many distracting side moments (like Sam spazzing out because of the watch bug). AOE had a solid plot that didn't get in its own way like DOTM, but they just took a really long time to get anywhere.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#534: Jul 5th 2014 at 8:26:57 PM

Overall, my main complaint with the film was that it was a bit too long. When your movie is nearly three hours in length, having nothing but action scenes for the finale (as cool as they were) isn't exactly enough to fill up the running time. Also, I did find it a bit weird how Stanley Tucci's character went from being completely serious in the beginning to almost comic relief in the end. A bit jarring. Thought the acting and dialogue was a bit too cheesy as well. That, and the plot could have been tighter.

Also, while I really liked the action setpieces, I didn't find them to be as, what's the word, "distinct" as previous films. Remember the wingsuit sequence from DOTM that was so amazing to witness? I feel that the film needed something like that to make it stand out beyond just explosions.

Other than that though, I'm really befuddled by the bashing this film has received (why on Earth is a 17% enough for this movie). I thought the robots were much better defined in terms of personalities and development this time around. All of the main Autobots were distinct with their own quirks and traits, with Optimus Prime being the stand out. His development was one of the highlights. Cade Yeager was a much better protagonist than Sam Witwicky, and I found it interesting that they made him essentially the human contrast to Optimus. Heck, his line that "sometimes, a mistake can indeed lead to something great" is basically the theme of the film, and is shown multiple times throughout the story, so I didn't find it as shallow as the critics claim it is.

Really awesome effects and action sequences by the way (even with no wingsuits). Lockdown was one heck of an awesome villain, and was also much more defined than say, The Fallen or Shockwave, which I greatly appreciate. Attinger was also a surprisingly chilling villain as well, and he also acted as a sort of foil to Cade Yeager. Galvatron was also an awesome adversary, especially since we got to finally see Megatron being the awesome villain he was in the first film again. Also, the way that the Mass Production Transformers (Evangelion much?) transformed was really something to see. Just the way they broke apart into molecules before reassembling was quite a sight.

So while I find the film to be flawed, and it's not my favorite film in the series, it's nowhere close to being the horrible destruction of storytelling that the critics make it out to be.

edited 5th Jul '14 8:27:22 PM by LDragon2

TheSpaceJawa Since: Jun, 2013
#535: Jul 5th 2014 at 8:33:39 PM

Aside from the length, what exactly did the critics hate about the movie exactly?

That Michael Bay was involved in making it.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#536: Jul 5th 2014 at 10:55:15 PM

^^ It's moments like the "Mistakes can lead to great things" scene and when Cade is helping Optimus repair himself "We call it a spark" "We call it a soul" that makes at the least character interactions stand far above ROTF and DOTM. There is a really solid movie bury inside of it, it was just too long.

And I also agree, when the Dinobots are unleashed that kicks the mayhem into full throttle but I didn't get a similar sense of a distinctive action set piece, just a lot of chaos. Optimus and Lockdown's fight was cool enough but still, the moment in DOTM where Optimus flies into the climactic fight, rains down hell across a quarter mile stretch of road before killing Shockwave and his subsequent battle against Sentinel Prime is not easy to beat.

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#537: Jul 5th 2014 at 10:58:32 PM

I didn't really feel like I was watching a 2 hour and 45 minute film. I'm just wondering why make Drift a Triple Changer. I don't remember seeing him transform into a car, yet he shows up in his car form several times and helicopter twice.

TheSpaceJawa Since: Jun, 2013
#538: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:32:22 PM

It's probably because a car is less conspicuous than a helicopter more often than not.

Speaking of which, did anyone else find themselves wondering "Are we sure that it's Drift that's the former Decepticon and not Crosshairs?" Because I could remember that one of the Autobots was supposed to be a defector, but I couldn't help but wonder if I was remembering which one it was supposed to be based on their actual behavior and attitude.

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#539: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:34:14 PM

Drift freaking out and stabbing the hell out of that tentacle monster kinda would fit with a former Decepticon trying to attain inner peace as an Autobot. But, I agree, Crosshair would have fit better as the former Decepticon.

TheSpaceJawa Since: Jun, 2013
#540: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:38:03 PM

[up] Considering we even have Hound shooting at one of those monsters simply for being "too ugly to let live" after it spits in his face, I can't say I'm seeing Drift stabbing a tentacle monster as being a 'former Decepticon moment' so much as it's just another moment of comedic relief.

edited 5th Jul '14 11:38:28 PM by TheSpaceJawa

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#541: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:39:25 PM

Drift: "We have the element of surprise, let's try not to kill any-DIEDIEDIE!! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!"

TheSpaceJawa Since: Jun, 2013
#542: Jul 5th 2014 at 11:56:06 PM

[up] Well, when you put it that way, it does seem more Decepticonish.

Still pales in comparison to all of Crosshairs' would-be Decepticon moments.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#543: Jul 6th 2014 at 12:30:37 AM

Crosshairs is a Blood Knight after all.

Also, can I just say how refreshing this thread is compared to IMDB's? Seriously, all they do over there is bash the movie. One person even said this:

"I don't say this about many things... but this film seriously deserves to be brutally, venomously hated. It's asinine, juvenile, belligerent garbage. The story is an incomprehensible mess because it's presented so poorly. The effects are utterly unconvincing (nothing feels like it's actually sitting in the frame or has any weight). The characters are an absolute joke. It's horrendously edited, with no sense of flow or pacing. The action is boring and dull, with no memorable moments. The character designs are unbalanced, illogical and messy. The whole movie is just sloppy, joyless, soulless garbage.

So yes, I'm really not ashamed of hating this movie."

Boy, someone needs to take a chill pill. tongue

That said, despite poor grammar, some did indeed point out a few perceived flaws:

"Conveniently stupid plot device right in the beginning.

The CIA(or FBI, doesn't really matter) somehow just got a tip that this semi (obviously Optimus) is on the road. Then, they show the bad dude these "satellite images", which are clearly pictures taken from a tree. All of this happens in about 20 seconds. It's just little things like that show how careless the writing process is.

Oh, another good one in the beginning is when the bad guys find Wahlberg and his daughter with Optimus in the garage , and the daughters bf, who his dad doesn't know about, shows up conveniently in the field and signals them to come and get in his super fast rally car. While running away and getting chased, they get t-boned by a surprised bad guy in the field. Much to bad guys dismay, the rally car stayed intact for the rest of the chase. No dents, no broken glass, even though they clearly showed them getting hit with glass breaking.

The female lead is, as always, complacently stupid and unrealistic. Nicola plays some crazy beautiful teenager(ha, teenager..) who is constantly being molested by the camera, which, is obvious for someone like Michael Bay.

On top of all that, Grimlock was being toted as this maniacle big robot that couldn't talk or really analyze anything. He was just this brute who was easily manipulated by Optimus, who played him off as a "superior warrior." nothing made sense.

But Hey, those explosions doe. "

edited 6th Jul '14 12:35:32 AM by LDragon2

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#544: Jul 6th 2014 at 12:51:57 AM

Also, to give a reprieve from brain stupidity courtesy of IMDB, I gotta say that I noticed that unlike some of the previous films, this one actually was centered around a theme. Think back to Yeager's quote when he was trying to convince Optimus to stay.

"Sometimes, mistakes can result in great things."

It may seem like a throwaway line, but that really does sum up the entire film's story. Many of the hero's in the movie end up making choices that at first seem really stupid, but ultimately give something positive in the end. Whether it's from Cade and his wife's accidenta; conceiving of Tessa, his decision to protect Optimus rather than turn him in, Optimus ultimately choosing to help him rather than turn his back on humanity, and even the creation of the Dinobots, this theme is prevalent throughout the whole story, and is why I feel that it isn't as mindless as the critics seem to think it is.

Yeah, it's not exactly the most compelling stuff, but unlike ROTF, it does make a statement. Don't just immediately assume that a mistake you made or are seemingly about to make is going to only result in something bad. Everything has a purpose, and while sometimes it can lead to disaster, it can also lead to something amazing. Whether or not you have the courage to risk making a mistake, and whether it will even result in something good is up to you.

Apologies for bringing religion into the mix, but me being a Christian and the like, I really found that message cool. After all, Jesus sacrificing his life could be considered a mistake to save such a sinful species, but in doing so, he allowed us to gain eternal life with him.

How the critics missed this is beyond me.

edited 6th Jul '14 1:01:41 AM by LDragon2

KZN02 The Master of Tediousness (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
The Master of Tediousness
#545: Jul 6th 2014 at 2:23:56 AM

Unless it was Michael Bay's intent from the start?

With a '0', not an 'O'
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#546: Jul 6th 2014 at 1:21:08 PM

The problem is nay-sayers would brush something like that off as something incidental or that you're reading too much into it. Now I don't know how intentional that theme is, but really accident or not it does give the movie some Hidden Depths that makes me appreciate it more.

#IceBearForPresident
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#547: Jul 6th 2014 at 2:06:48 PM

The third movie also had a Central Theme, though. It seemed to have a recurring theme of the losses and horrors of War (Ironhide dies, Sentinel Prime turns into a Fallen Hero, Sam is Desperately Looking for a Purpose in Life unlike the previous movies, Humans betray the Autobots, so forth).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#548: Jul 6th 2014 at 4:22:20 PM

All the movies had a Central Theme of sorts, although ROTF is a bit harder to decipher.

  • The first film was about how you can't expect life to just work out but you need to be willing to sacrifice and risk something to achieve your goals. In some ways it is a deconstruction of the Dogged Nice Guy, Mikaela knocked him down a notch when she asked if he ever had to sacrifice for anything and she doesn't show any interest in him until he is not so concerned with trying to impress her.
  • ROTF had a couple of themes regarding The Call Knows Where You Live and rising to a new challenge, but it is not easy to see. Too much of the story was Sam being trapped by the circumstances rather than having a choice in the matter.
  • DOTM was about where you put your allegiance, what your priorities are and being comfortable where you are at right now rather than obsessing over where you want to be. Sentinel Prime justified his betrayal as being for the good of Cybertron and Megatron begrudgingly compromised his own position even though he would never be satisfied with the end result. Sam was too self-absorbed in his own misery to realize his life wasn't half bad, and became determined to rescue Carly and keep her safe regardless of what happens.
  • AOE is that you can't lose hope and go against your morals just because life has thrown a curveball at you. Great things can come when you put Honor Before Reason, so it is about doing what is right rather than giving up just because it seems more sensible.

edited 6th Jul '14 4:28:25 PM by KJMackley

disruptorfe404 Since: Sep, 2011
#549: Jul 6th 2014 at 9:01:21 PM

Saw this on Friday.

I like it overall as a big-action popcorn-fest, but I tihnk it felt too... Cluttered. The stuff with Cybertronian Knights (I think?) and Optimus being Robot King Arthur was a little out of place (I'm aware that they're setting up for sequels, but it could have been better done). Tangent: could Optimus fly the whole time, or was that something the sword gave him?

Dinobots felt shoehorned, which is a pity, because their fight scenes were solid.

I didn't dislike Tessa and Shane, despite expecting to. Cade is a good human protag for a Transformers film (hopefully series). Not-Steve Jobs went from haughty to comedic a little too quickly (or just went a little too comedic), Evil Frasier was solid.

As for the robots...

I felt sorry when Ratchet got murdered. I feel that maybe the Autobots could have emoted their angst a little more. Crosshairs having a transformer-trenchcoat was amusing (though I'm not a fan of his characterisation), samurai-roboto-san (Drift?) was cool though I'm not sure why he had a Japanese accent (maybe he really liked it while he was Googling up Earth?), Hound is a worthy addition to the roster.

Galvatron felt a little generic to me. I'm not sure why, but I liked Stinger.

Dinobots, as mentioned, felt shoehorned. They needed some more foreshadowing and screen time.

Now, Optimus... Is still a vicious killer (which is fine, this continuity's version doesn't have or need the virtue-baggage that others might), and I accept what the film is trying to tell us about Optimus (a good 'bot done wrong by, angry at his former allies and sponsors, aching for some form of retribution but unwilling to carry it out), but like the other films, I find that Optimus seems to go back and forth between calmreasonable and rageboner too quickly (not necessarily bad if Bay is trying to portray a dangerous mental state of some kind, but it doesn't feel like Bay is trying for that).

Overall, a competent 'bot-smashing flick for me.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#550: Jul 6th 2014 at 9:47:06 PM

Saw it a few hours ago and I loved the hell out of it. I thought it was much better that the last 3 films.


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