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This is a thread about diseases, medicines, treatments, medical insurances, hospital policies, and everything else interesting about human body here.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is NOT a place for medical diagnosis and advice. For those, please consult certified medical professionals of appropriate fields.

Edited by dRoy on Feb 20th 2020 at 2:33:51 AM

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#1104: Jun 26th 2014 at 6:14:39 AM

Re:Automated spam extraction: Well guess I'm not gonna sleep tonight.

Is there really demand for sperm donation in China? One child policy and everything.

hashtagsarestupid
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1106: Jun 26th 2014 at 10:41:29 AM

Crossposting from the Science Thread: From that "cloaking" article:

''If the T cells lack the docking site for type 1 interferon, however, they are hunted down by the NK cells and exterminated.''

Well, that stuff is my bread and butter. That would be one additional "dependence signal for tolerance" molecule (beyond the MHC-I ones); wonder if there are more.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#1107: Jun 26th 2014 at 12:45:47 PM

Hoping over from the General Middle East thread with a medical question, what level of lead concentration in the air would be needed for it to actually have effects upon people in a way that might make them more criminally inclined? And how come is that level of lead concentration.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1108: Jun 26th 2014 at 12:49:49 PM

Wiki page.

First off, the lead dosage at which toxic effects start is really low (for example, a blood concentration 5 μg/dL is enough to cause learning problems). And yes, substantial effects on crime rates are suspected, to wit:

Elevated lead levels in children are correlated with higher scores on aggression and delinquency measures.[23] A correlation has also been found between prenatal and early childhood lead exposure and violent crime in adulthood.[104] Countries with the highest air lead levels have also been found to have the highest murder rates, after adjusting for confounding factors.[23] A May 2000 study by economic consultant Rick Nevin theorizes that lead exposure explains 65% to 90% of the variation in violent crime rates in the US.[116][117] A 2007 paper by the same author claims to show a strong association between preschool blood lead and subsequent crime rate trends over several decades across nine countries.[118][119] It is believed that the U.S. ban on lead paint in buildings in the late 1970s, as well as the phaseout of leaded gasoline in the 1970s and 1980s, partially helped contribute to the decline of violent crime in the United States since the early 1990s.[119]

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#1109: Jun 26th 2014 at 3:41:48 PM

I remember Cosmos did a whole episode on lead and its effects on people.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#1111: Jun 26th 2014 at 5:48:57 PM

^^^^There is way too many very variables to work out stuff like that. Besides I think it's optimistic to consider violence and crime to be an abnormal element in society that mentally sound people are somehow above. People have been raping killing and pillaging each other since Cain started it.

edited 26th Jun '14 5:50:54 PM by joeyjojo

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rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1113: Jun 26th 2014 at 10:58:11 PM

Fighting parasitic infection inadvertently unleashes dormant virus

You mean, HIV's standard modus operandi?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1114: Jun 27th 2014 at 4:14:28 AM

[up][up][up]And, as it turns out: external factors, and heavy metals in particular, are a bigger factor than was thought. <shrugs> There is a stack of evidence that says this. Not all of which is circumstantial, either. The circumstantial evidence helps round the picture out, though.

You'd better deal with that: it doesn't mean the other factors that impact levels of violence aren't there. But, it does mean that when somebody does something violent, you really do need to look at everything, and not just simply throw your hands up and say "well, they're Evil: execute 'em and it's a good 'un — job done, guys". -_-

You might not be able to do much about general human nature. But, you can do something about heavy metals and other external factors that push human nature into violent channels.

Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#1115: Jun 27th 2014 at 7:44:18 AM

You're both right, but this is why we need to answer the question that's actually being asked, dammit. *grumps* The long and short of it is, yes, there seems to be a correlation between lead toxicity and violent crimes, which isn't a surprise since it's already linked to neuropsychiatric disorders. No, I don't think you can come up with a cutoff point for the levels of lead in the air that automatically turns people into psychopathic axe murderers makes people more criminally inclined, because a.) lead toxicity is cumulative and takes a rather long time to clear, b.) a whole lot of other sources can contribute to lead exposure aside from airborne sources, c.) the causes of violent crimes are multifactorial and certainly not just limited to lead toxicity, and "more criminally inclined" is too vague a variable (so you'll have to quantify your request a little more clearly, e.g. "turns people into psychopathic axe murderers"), d.) the effects of chronic lead exposure may be subclinical or subtle at low levels, may be hard to detect, and may vary between individuals, and e.) there's no lower limit for the dose-response relationship in lead toxicity - which means that any amount of lead exposure might be "too much", and that's not entirely hyperbole.

edited 27th Jun '14 8:24:20 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#1116: Jun 27th 2014 at 7:57:37 AM

Since SilasW's question was specifically about airborne lead, one thing that I would suggest looking for is to see if there were any studies done on crime rates around the time that leaded gas was banned from general use. In the US, that was in the mid-70's. One website I found (http://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/66 ) says that elevated lead levels in children dropped from 88% (that's 88% of children showed elevated lead levels) when leaded gas was in wide use to about 1% after it was no longer used at all. It includes links to studies — do some digging.

edited 27th Jun '14 8:00:23 AM by Madrugada

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1117: Jun 27th 2014 at 8:11:18 AM

And, if you wish to suggest that pre-leaded fuel the crime rates were just as high (if not higher: say, by picking Victorian England or Ancient Greece)... There were still higher-than-you'd-expect levels of lead in the environment. And, arsenic. And, mercury. And, a little too much copper. And, nickel. And, cadmium. And, antimony (why only single lead out for inappropriate, but unappreciated as deadly at the time cosmetic use: goooooo antimony!).

Heck: Greece and Rome added lead to wine to make it sweeter (granted, only the really, really good wine, so: if you're in the cheap seats, tough — but, still). And, the history of lead paint is a long one and intimate one. <_< Or pewter dishes and storage vats lined in lead or just lead pipework.

In short: the minute we started messing around with copper and nickel as a species, we started messing around with heavy trouble beyond making weapons with the stuff. :| Heck: even flint has issues — it can be radioactive. Or, found in radioactive sites. Or, found right next to... ores bearing a lot of heavy metals. tongue

Technology: it's a double-edged sword, whatever shape it comes in. wink

edited 27th Jun '14 8:12:54 AM by Euodiachloris

Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#1118: Jun 27th 2014 at 8:31:26 AM

Well, I hear the Middle East has plenty of airborne lead, it's just that most of it comes in the form of bullets.tongue

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#1119: Jun 27th 2014 at 8:54:43 AM

The question was released to the suggestion that part of why the Middle East is so violent could be due to possible high levels of lead in the air, which seemed unlikely to me, thus why I came and asked you guys.

And exactly how dangerous is lead paint? Like some of my old D&D figures are painted with lead paints, my understanding was that I'd be fine as long as I washed my hands are handling them.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1120: Jun 27th 2014 at 9:01:34 AM

Judging by this thing, there seems to be a strong but apparently non-cumulative correlation between the usage of lead paint and blood concentrations in infants.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#1121: Jun 27th 2014 at 9:14:11 AM

[up][up]I guess we're saying "it's not the only contributor by a long chalk: but, don't rule it out — as lead is decidedly not insignificant". smile tongue

Pyrite Until further notice from Right. Beneath. You. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
#1122: Jun 27th 2014 at 9:25:38 AM

[up][up]And in case anyone got the wrong impression, that doesn't necessarily mean that lead toxicity isn't cumulative, because it gets deposited everywhere else. Bone is a pretty big lead reserve.

[up][up][up]Skin absorption of lead compounds (at least, the inorganic ones) is lesser compared to inhalation or ingestion, but the trouble with chronic handling is that you can't really be sure how much lead paint you've ingested or inhaled in the process (via the microscopic particles which flake off). I'd expect that exposure from your figurines is probably less than if your house was painted with lead paint, unless you ate your figurines, in which case I'd say you have bigger problems.tongue As for the Middle East... we may never know. (I still think we should start with the bullets.)

edited 27th Jun '14 9:50:19 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love

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