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Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#201: Oct 31st 2011 at 3:38:43 AM

As to be expected, said sword was named "Mistletoe" for some reason, according to Gesta Danorum, hence the confusion with the plant mistletoe.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#202: Oct 31st 2011 at 3:58:02 AM

There is at least one big error in that list of "infernal names".

Dracula - Romanian name for devil
While it is true that "drac" means "devil" in modern Romanian, this is a recent development.

Originally, and during the lifetime of Vlad the Impaler, "drac" meant dragon: in effect, his father Vlad II was called Dracul ("the dragon") because he was a member of the prestigious Order of the Dragon, a Catholic chivalric order.

edited 31st Oct '11 3:58:11 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#203: Oct 31st 2011 at 12:48:52 PM

Meh. Norse Paganism was around for a long time, things can change dramatically when kept in an oral tradition like that.

From my understanding we only know of most Norse Paganism through Christian eyes, so who knows how much of it was destroyed.

Though perhaps La Vey meant something different by "devil" he could of used such a liberal thing such as animal characteristics to link them (he does mention that they all at least in part had animal characteristics, also as of note it's a bit hard to tell what he means by "Devil" I think he also might be talking in terms of what some Christians have called Devils as many old Gods were demoted to such things in some systems).

It was my understanding that they were more or less equal to Satan in some way, but I may of been wrong. Don't take what I said for what La Vey was saying, read the entire section I quoted a bit back (it's the entirety of that 'chapter'.)

Though when I first read the Satanic Bible I will admit that some of his arguments seemed very straw to me; but I tried to consider that it was written in Circa 1967 San Fransisco.

I'm surprised that no La Veyan has jumped all over this yet, but if you guys rip apart La Vey I shall shed no tears; the Satanist does not weep for doubt, any doubt.

From La Vey himself:

The truth alone has never set anyone free. It is only DOUBT which will bring mental emancipation. Without the wonderful element of doubt, the doorway through which truth passes would be tightly shut, impervious to the most strenuous poundings of a thousand Lucifers.

That reminds me, why the hell do people say "Ave Satanas"? I thought it was "Ave Satana", "Satanas" is improper from my understanding. For a long time I've known that La Vey's Latin was terrible.

The fact that he says "Shemhamforash" does not sit well with me. That comes from a name for Yahweh. And then we have the fact that he purposely messed with the Enochian Keys for dramatic effect by his own admission. Granted, the language was made not to be spoken in but for purely ritual matters, but still...

And this talk of the list isn't that off topic; it is critiquing La Vey's work, and again, from a Satanic point of view such scrutiny of sources is encouraged.

I only wish some people I knew in my life would be as willing to doubt their own revelations and doctrines, Christian or not.

edited 31st Oct '11 12:51:49 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
TheEarthSheep Christmas Sheep from a Pasture hexagon Since: Sep, 2010
Christmas Sheep
#204: Oct 31st 2011 at 3:27:58 PM

So I looked over that list, for real this time. Found a few errors I don't think were addressed:

1. It calls Pluto the 'Greek god of the underworld'. Pluto is Roman. Also, he's not even kind of Satan, he's basically the equivalent of Zeus or Poseidon, he just rules over a domain that the Western World isn't so fond of.

2. Pwcca is not Satan, a 'Puca' (which is how it's spelled in English, usually) is just a tricky lobster person. Sometimes. It shape-shifts. Usually it's a horse that convinces people to ride it, and when they do it goes crazy and scares the crap out of them, but then it lets them off safely, and never does them harm. Source.

3. 'Proserpine' isn't the Greek OR Roman (the word is Roman, the list says Greek, the Greek name is 'Persephone') Satan (or even bad at all), she was forced, against her will, to chill with Hades for half of each year.

I also disagree with calling Dionysus Satan, but they're similar enough I'll let it slide.

Still Sheepin'
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#205: Oct 31st 2011 at 4:35:35 PM

Isn't Dionysus basically the god of parties, wine, and getting it on? But he was a pretty nice guy if you didn't try to cramp his style.

edited 31st Oct '11 4:36:01 PM by Katrika

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#206: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:11:33 PM

Dionysus is actually very often compared to Christ.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#207: Oct 31st 2011 at 9:05:02 PM

1. It calls Pluto the 'Greek god of the underworld'. Pluto is Roman. Also, he's not even kind of Satan, he's basically the equivalent of Zeus or Poseidon, he just rules over a domain that the Western World isn't so fond of.

will you people listen to me? dont mistake what I said for what La Vey said! He never said that those were other figures that were equal to Satan! I made a mistake in saying that, please go back and read Hell, The Devil, and How to Sell your Soul section I provided. I have the whole thing with the list that has the origins of the names.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#208: Oct 31st 2011 at 9:07:14 PM

You should all read this before bashing the list more, I think people still mixed what I said for what La Vey said.

Hell, The Devil, and How to Sell your Soul

SATAN has certainly been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years. The false doctrine of Hell and the Devil has allowed the Protestant and Catholic Churches to flourish far too long. Without a devil to point their fingers at, religionists of the right hand path would have nothing with which to threaten their followers. "Satan leads you to temptation"; "Satan is the prince of evil"; "Satan is vicious, cruel, brutal, " they warn. "If you give in to the temptations of the devil, you will surely suffer eternal damnation and roast in Hell."

The semantic meaning of Satan is the "adversary" or "opposition" or the "accuser". The very word "devil" comes from the Indian devi which means "god". Satan represents opposition to all religions which serve to frustrate and condemn man for his natural instincts. He has been given an evil role simply because he represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life.

Satan, the chief devil of the Western World, was originally an angel whose duty was to report human delinquencies to God. It was not until the Fourteenth Century that he began to be depicted as an evil deity who was part man and part animal, with goat-like horns and hooves. Before Christianity gave him the names of Satan, Lucifer, etc., the carnal side of man's nature was governed by the god which was then called Dionysus, or Pan, depicted as a satyr or faun, by the Greeks. Pan was originally the "good guy", and symbolized fertility and fecundity.

Whenever a nation comes under a new form of government, the heroes of the past become villains of the present. So it is with religion. The earliest Christians believed that the Pagan deities were devils, and to employ them was to use "black magic". Miraculous heavenly events they termed "white magic"; this was the sole distinction between the two. The old gods did not die, they fell into Hell and became devils. The bogey, goblin, or bugaboo used to frighten children is derived from the Slavonic "Bog" which means "god", as does Bhaga in Hindu.

Many pleasures revered before the advent of Christianity were condemned by the new religion. It required little changeover to transform the horns and cloven hooves of Pan into a most convincing devil! Pan's attributes could be neatly changed into charged-with-punishment sins, and so the metamorphosis was complete.

The association of the goat with the Devil is found in the Christian Bible, where the holiest day of the year, the Day of Atonement, was celebrated by casting lots for two goats "without blemish", one to be offered to the Lord, and one to Azazel. The goat carrying the sins of the people was driven into the desert and became a "scapegoat". This is the origin of the goat which is still used in lodge ceremonies today as it was also used in Egypt, where once a year it was sacrificed to a God.

The devils of mankind are many, and their origins diversified. The performance of Satanic ritual does not embrace the calling forth of demons; this practice is followed only by those who are in fear of the very forces they conjure.

Supposedly, demons are malevolent spirits with attributes conductive to the deterioration of the people or events that they touch upon. The Greek word demon meant a guardian spirit or source of inspiration, and to be sure, later theologians invented legion upon legion of these harbingers of inspiration - all wicked.

An indication of the cowardice of "magicians" of the right-hand path is the practice of calling upon a particular demon (who would supposedly be a minion of the devil) to do his bidding. The assumption is that the demon, being only a flunky of the devil, is easier to control. Occult lore states that only the most formidably "protected" or insanely foolhardy sorcerer would try to call forth the Devil himself.

The Satanist does not furtively call upon these "lesser" devils, but brazenly invokes those who people that infernal army of long-standing outrage - the Devils themselves!

Theologians have catalogued some of the names of devils in their lists of demons, as might be expected, but the roster which follows contains the names and origins of the Gods and Goddesses called upon, which make up a large part of the occupancy of the Royal Palace of Hell:

[list removed]

The devils of past religions have always, at least in part, had animal characteristics, evidence of man's constant need to deny that he too is an animal, for to do so would serve a mighty blow to his impoverished ego.

The pig was despised by the Jews and the Egyptians. It symbolized the gods Frey, Osiris, Adonis, Persephone, Attis, and Demeter, and was sacrificed to Osiris and the Moon. But, in time, it became degraded into a devil. The Phoenicians worhipped a fly god, Baal, from which comes the devil, Beelzebub. Both Baal and Beelzebub are identical to the dung beetle or scarabaeus of the Egyptians which appeared to resurrect itself, much as the mythical bird, the phoenix, rose from its own ashes. The ancient Jews believed, through their contact with the Persians, that the two great forces in the world were Ahura-Mazda, the god of fire, light, life, and goodness; and Ahriman, the serpent, the god of darkness, destruction, death, and evil. These, and countless other examples, not only depict man's devils as animals, but also show his need to sacrifice the original animal gods and demote them to his devils.

At the time of the Reformation, in the Sixteenth Century, the alchemist, Dr. Johann Faustus, discovered a method of summoning a demon - Mephistopheles - from Hell and making a pact with him. He signed a contract in blood to turn his soul over to Mephistopheles in return for the feeling of youth, and at once became young. When the time came for Faustus to die, he retired to his room and was blown to bits as though his laboratory had exploded. This story is a protest of the times (the Sixteenth Century) against science, chemistry, and magic.

To the Satanist, it is unnecessary to sell your soul to the Devil or make a pact with Satan. This threat was devised by Christianity to terrorize people so they would not stray from the fold. With scolding fingers and trembling voices, they taught their followers that if they gave in to the temptations of Satan, and lived their lives according to their natural predilictions, they would have to pay for their sinful pleasures by giving their souls to Satan and suffering in Hell for all eternity. People were led to believe that a pure soul was a passport to everlasting life.

Pious prophets have taught man to fear Satan. But what of terms like "God fearing"? If God is so merciful, why do people have to fear him? Are we to believe there is nowhere we can turn to escape fear? If you have to fear God, why not be "Satan fearing" and at least have the fun that being God fearing denies you? Without such a wholesale fear religionists would have had nothing with which to wield power over their followers.

The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a Pagan god of torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were formulated. The prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, which was the abode of fallen angels, the underworld (inside the earth), and Gehenna, which was a valley near Jerusalem where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumped and burned. It is from this that the Christian Church has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell.

The Protestant Hell and the Catholic Hell are places of eternal punishment; however, the Catholics also believe there is a "Purgatory" where all souls go for a time, and a "Limbo" where unbaptized souls go. The Buddhist Hell is divided into eight sections, the first seven of which can be expiated. The ecclesiastical description of Hell is that of a horrible place of fire and torment; in Dante's Inferno, and in northern climes, it was thought to be an icy cold region, a giant refrigerator.

(Even with all their threats of eternal damnation and soul roasting, Christian missionaries have run across some who were not so quick to swallow their drivel. Pleasure and pain, like beauty, are in the eye of the beholder. So, when missionaries ventured into Alaska and warned the Eskimos of the horrors of Hell and the blazing lake of fire awaiting transgressors, they eagerly asked: "How do we get there?"!)

Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being with cloven hooves, a barbed tail, and horns. He merely represents a force in nature - the powers of darkness which have been named just that because no religion has taken these forces out of the darkness. Nor has science been able to apply technical terminology to this force. It is an untapped resivoir that few can make use of because they lack the ability use a tool without having to first break down and label all the parts which make it run. It is this incessant need to analyze which prohibits most people from taking advantage of this many faceted key to the unknown - which the Satanist chooses to call "Satan".

Satan, as a god, demi-god, personal saviour, or whatever you wish to call him, was invented by the formulators of every religion on the face of the earth for only one purpose - to preside over man's so-called wicked activities and situations here on earth. Consequently, anything resulting in physical or mental gratification was defined as "evil" - thus assuring a lifetime of unwarrented guilt for everyone!

So, if "evil" they have named us, evil we are - and so what! The Satanic Age is upon us! Why not take advantage of it and LIVE!

the paragraphs got destroyed >.>

edit: went in and fixed the paragraphs. Also notice I removed the list that had the origins so you guys would not get distracted. In there he explains why he made the list the way he did,

edited 31st Oct '11 9:15:00 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#209: Nov 3rd 2011 at 4:16:33 PM

hail to the Satan,

and death to the Abrahamic religions!

for i am of my own virtue, I do good and evil with no inhibitions, for the abrahamic God Is Dead; Satan is my one true god now, one that embraces all me for what I am and seeks to better me for my own good and not that of any "Divine Glory" that hypocritically causes hurt in the claims of some sick and twisted appeal to authority and greater good!

I defy any ethics and embrace the chaos as i realize the truth; I do any action because I desire to; I need no justification for any act, good or evil!

HAIL SATAN, FOR WE WILL BECOME AS GODS!

satanic fever takes me over! it is as if i am consumed by unholy forces and Legion, Ave Satana! Satan will rise me to his level, AND MAN SHALL RULE WITH SATAN AS EQUAL; WE WILL BE AS GODS!

edited 3rd Nov '11 4:21:36 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#210: Nov 3rd 2011 at 4:20:19 PM

^ Unless you're quoting something tangentially relevant, I don't see how this belongs in a discussion.

And, man, if your belief in Satan is informed by Abrahamic scripture, you're a little off the mark saying shit like God is dead. Also, note that the only Satan the Bible names as such works for God in order to test people's faith and piety.

edited 3rd Nov '11 4:23:25 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#211: Nov 3rd 2011 at 4:22:31 PM

[up]

its just me randomly caught in Satanic inspiration. The topic is about Satanism in general as said in the starting post on page one, so obviously its relevant

edit: it is about the main goal of satanism to me personally

edited 3rd Nov '11 4:24:25 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#212: Nov 3rd 2011 at 4:24:52 PM

It isn't relevant, no more than speaking in tongues is welcome in the Christianity discussion threads.

And your personal belief wasn't formed in a vacuum. You can't pick and choose which Abrahamic tenets you want to adopt.

edited 3rd Nov '11 4:26:26 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
Newfable Since: Feb, 2011
#213: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:10:41 PM

Yeah, this thread stopped being interesting after the play by play of jason's Cry At The Heavens Weekend Tour '11. Just sayin'.

edited 3rd Nov '11 5:12:11 PM by Newfable

jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#214: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:16:52 PM

[up][up]

and why cant i pick and choose? and it is welcome here, this is my thread. Don't like it? Don't listen.

And at that I meant that god is dead in the context of how I form my morals. the bit I went on about there was about ethics and morality, and transcending social constructs that I find damaging as well as becoming "like a god" in a more metaphysical way.

Satanism will always have some context with Christanity, I believe this is because at some point Christians vilified human nature and man's true god, and called him Satan after the Ha-Satan in the book of Job.

It just turns out that from a literary persective, Satan is the most appropriate name there is for such an entity that guides our "sinful" nature (that is, our nature without the interference by the Abrahamic Gods).

It was a battle cry about my actions being by their own merits and their own concern; not that of some God. Take note I said "in the name of" instead of "commanded by", which can leave room for the interpretation that I am saying that it may not be the Abrahamic God per say, but his followers that are the problem.

As for God Is Dead, I meant it in the original context and intent that Frederick intended it as I understand it (I believe he was refering to 'God' in a moral and ethical way as opposed to a literal metaphysical way)

please dont take things so literally, there was a crap ton of symbolism in there as well as the literal and actual metaphysical claims of being a god; I apologize if it's hard to tell when I'm being symbolic and literal in the same speech.

edit: [up] I think some since might differ with the talk of the list of Devils we went on about for a while there.

The think is that Satanism is by far not limited to La Veyanism, I am only trying to spark a Theistic discussion is all. Everyone seems to have some misunderstandings about how diverse Theistic Satanism really is, it's more diverse than say, the breeds of dogs people have.

Why you guys couldn't see my speech as just a piece of inspiration of the triumph of the self over ethical codes is beyond me; that's all it ever was. Perhaps I shouldn't of included the metaphysical aspect of "becoming gods" but as it is I am a theistic Satanist and do believe that Satan is more than an allegory and quite real, and that i can quite literally become like a god in death when my time runs out on this earth.

Then again "become as gods" might mean it more in the terms of mankind as a whole, but ruling out a personal godhood seems odd for something as individualistic outright in favor of a collective "godhood" of mankind.

edited 3rd Nov '11 5:23:44 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#215: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:31:07 PM

Theistic Satanism is just a revival of Gnosticism by angry metalheads. It doesn't really exist as an organized or coherent creed.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#216: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:37:48 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#217: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:43:37 PM

There are polytheistic Gnostics. And if me saying so offends you, maybe you shouldn't throw stones from a glass house, eh?

edited 3rd Nov '11 5:44:51 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#218: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:43:49 PM

I am just done with people who won't use the FRICKING SHIFT KEY.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#219: Nov 3rd 2011 at 5:44:39 PM

[up] huh?

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Newfable Since: Feb, 2011
#220: Nov 3rd 2011 at 6:02:21 PM

[up] Exactly.

Just remember that if this gets too off topic or too irrelevant, or just too damn pointless, the mods won't have any kind of problem of locking "your" thread on the forums they moderate.

I'd suggest saving the random outbursts of "Yay Satan!" to Facebook and such. Yes, this is the Satanism Thread (as, you're right, there isn't another one), but threads are primarily places for discussion.

Food for thought and all that.

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#221: Nov 3rd 2011 at 6:06:32 PM

See, when you start saying things like "death to Abrahamic religions" (which, frankly, Satanism is, as well, silly tongue), that's when Satanism goes from "bleh, some other strange minor religion, whatever" to "oh, maybe the 'Satanism is evil!' strawmen have some kind of point, here."

You can't be offended if people consider you a crazed lunatic if you act and sound like one...

I am now known as Flyboy.
Newfable Since: Feb, 2011
#222: Nov 3rd 2011 at 6:10:11 PM

[up] Sadly, this kind of thing happens everywhere, which usually makes people think of religion in general as a bad idea when taken too far.

People standing on the corner with signs that say "CHRIST IS GOD!"? The natural thought seems to be, "Oh, those kooky Christians. What will they ever think of next?"

Satanism isn't exempt, especially concerning all the general confusion over the whole shindig.

Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#223: Nov 3rd 2011 at 6:39:13 PM

It's kind of hurtful, too.

[up] ...isn't it pretty well accepted that in the christian faith, Christ is one of the 3 aspects of God, singular? Why...why would anyone need to stand on a street corner and clarify?

edited 3rd Nov '11 6:41:57 PM by Katrika

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#224: Nov 3rd 2011 at 6:58:45 PM

There are unitarian branches of Christianity, but I suspect it's got more to do with reaffirming that Christ is the one and true God, as opposed to, say, Odin.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

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