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jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#176: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:21:11 PM

[up]

you read the whole section then? also as well im not defending him, did you see the link as well? I do not know how reliable it is given Satanist infighting, but if the sources check out there is good reason to doubt La Vey was serious. It would make him a plagiarizer and a wife-beater.

edit: i was just saying i may of said it wrong so gave the whole section there. judge for yourself, that is the Satanic way to think for yourself based on research and education.

edited 30th Oct '11 3:22:32 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#177: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:25:04 PM

What I'm saying is I don't see how people take the theology of the troll seriously, even if his base ideas have merit.

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#178: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:26:25 PM

wait did you read the link?

also troll or not he is influential for better or worse. ive known theists who roughly say what your saying, but still even if he plagiarized he still presented many base ideas that have grown into their own.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#179: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:33:44 PM

No no no, I'm not criticising his ideas. He had merit. I'm just raising my eyebrow at the fact that there are probably laveyan satanists who take everything he says at face value...which is kind of missing the point, right?

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#180: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:36:23 PM

Lucifer... less so.

He's Jesus. No, seriously. Jesus is reffered as "Lucifer" at one point.

For one thing, Prospertine remains the goddess of spring.

According to this very wiki, she might as well be a demon, since all greek gods are appearently evil even though roughly 30% of them all were actually very decent chaps. Like Hestia.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#181: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:38:32 PM

He's Jesus. No, seriously. Jesus is reffered as "Lucifer" at one point.

I was going to say, "bullshit, troll," but on second thought, there is actually merit to this idea.

Couldn't say for sure either way, but...

I am now known as Flyboy.
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#182: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:42:32 PM

[up][up][up]

Yes.

This former member gives the low down on what's wrong with the church. (he left at one point). Most members now days are asses more or less with superman syndrome.

edit: Lucifer means light bearer, Lucifer does not exist.

edited 30th Oct '11 3:44:41 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#183: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:42:52 PM

According to this very wiki, she might as well be a demon, since all greek gods are appearently evil even though roughly 30% of them all were actually very decent chaps. Like Hestia.

Though that's still 70% who were complete dicks, and coincidentally hogged most of the prime territory in Greek mythology.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#184: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:43:32 PM

[up][up]It is worth to note what "Lucifer" actually means in latin...

edited 30th Oct '11 3:44:05 PM by Gannetwhale

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
jasonwill2 True art is Angsty from West Virginia Since: Mar, 2011
#185: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:45:22 PM

whoah i got ninjaed in that edit, guys might want to check teh link i gave at the end of my last post

edited 30th Oct '11 3:51:21 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#186: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:57:19 PM

Gannetwhale: ...except that's not so, that's referring to their pop culture depiction.

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#187: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:09:37 PM

Screw pop culture, I have research!

Since "Lucifer" was never an actual name but an epiphet given to deities associated with light, as far as I am concerned Jesus, Helel or Hesperus deserve more that title than the fictional Stupid Evil red guy with horns and tridents, who doesn't even remotely resemble Satan.

edited 30th Oct '11 4:10:11 PM by Gannetwhale

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#188: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:18:37 PM

the True Cosmic god is kind of too far removed to be worshiped in any tangible way. The Darkness I call it.

You should look into Gnosticism.

Also, apparently Midgard WAS the snake. Actually, looking at this list leads me to believe he did very little research on many of these figures:

Shiva - (Hindu) the destroyer

Yes, but it’s understood his function is a natural part of change. He is neither feared nor reviled within Hindu myth. He's actually part of their central trinity of Gods.

Kali - (Hindu) daughter of Shiva, high priestess of the Thuggees

Try “WIFE”.

O-Yama - Japanese name for Satan

OK, this seems to be referring to Enma-O. “Yama” would be the Hindu name of this figure, so I’m guessing there was something of a translation car wreck.

Anyhow, he’s a judge of the dead, sending some to an east Asian equivalent of Hell, sending some to reincarnation, and sending others to be honored ancestors.

Actually, "Yen-lo-Wang" is basically the EXACT same person, just in Chinese.

Coyote - American Indian devil

Ah…try trickster and creator god.

I’m sure I can find more, but the important aspect is this list is very flawed. I can accept that he’s an atheist, but that’s not really an excuse for presenting flawed information. It’s odd in that it seems he was trying very hard to gathering as much entities in some sort of Syncretism as possible. OR just trying to increase the numbers on the list. But many of these figures aren’t even comparable to demons or devils by almost any stretch of the imagination.

edited 30th Oct '11 4:31:17 PM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
TheEarthSheep Christmas Sheep from a Pasture hexagon Since: Sep, 2010
Christmas Sheep
#189: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:29:13 PM

[up] Another thing you didn't mention re: Coyote/Native Americans: There is no such thing as a belief that is shared among all American Indians; they were as widespread and varied as America is today, if not more so. I think Coyote is a Sioux thing, but it could have been Shoshone or even something else. My American Indian folklore is a bit rusty, to say the least.

Edit: Sioux and Shoshone aren't the same thing right? Like I said, a bit rusty.

edited 30th Oct '11 4:29:59 PM by TheEarthSheep

Still Sheepin'
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#190: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:30:38 PM

On that note, it's a bit surprising that Raven isn't on the list as he is almost interchangeable with Coyote between some of the tribal beliefs.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
TheEarthSheep Christmas Sheep from a Pasture hexagon Since: Sep, 2010
Christmas Sheep
#191: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:35:42 PM

I checked, it's the Nez Perce who had the beliefs we usually think of when we hear 'Coyote' in context with 'trickster', though several tribes had vaguely similar stories (though, to be fair, that's kind of the definition of 'archetype').

Oh yeah, and while we're talking about it, Coyote wasn't any more of a Satan figure than Loki was. They both came from cultures that didn't have Black and White morality in their pantheon, and both did good and bad things.

For example, this story, copy+pasted from the other Wiki: There was once a monster which lived in the valley of the Clearwater River near Kamiah. This beast devoured all the animals that lived in the country for miles around and became such a menace that Coyote, that clever hero of many an Indian myth, decided it must be killed. Arming himself with a flint knife, he jumped down the animal's throat and stabbed it in the heart. Then he cut the body up into pieces and from them fashioned tribes of Indians which he sent to occupy the mountains and plains round about. (origin story of Nez Perce)

Pretty great guy, from this story.

edited 30th Oct '11 4:39:55 PM by TheEarthSheep

Still Sheepin'
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#192: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:43:35 PM

The closest thing to a traditional Satan-like figure that I can think of in Cherokee mythology is the Titmouse Bird, which was called "The Deceiver" for being a general asshole.

Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#193: Oct 30th 2011 at 4:47:35 PM

Rather apropriate, actually, since that those birds rip off bat heads when the mammals are hibernating, and then feed on their brains.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#194: Oct 30th 2011 at 5:01:59 PM

Loki gets pretty evil in the later myths. Especially Ragnarok. Although, this could very well be to Hijacked by Jesus. Christianity started influencing the Norse myths as it started replacing Norse as the dominant religion in the Region. Similarly to how many of the faeries became evil when Christianity started replacing Celtic myth.

edited 30th Oct '11 5:03:38 PM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
TheEarthSheep Christmas Sheep from a Pasture hexagon Since: Sep, 2010
Christmas Sheep
#195: Oct 30th 2011 at 5:03:29 PM

[up] Meh. Norse Paganism was around for a long time, things can change dramatically when kept in an oral tradition like that.

Still Sheepin'
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#196: Oct 30th 2011 at 5:04:59 PM

[up]True.

Oral traditions do seem to have many variances and even conflicting stories (albeit, held by different areas or, cities, or tribes) when compared to traditions that get written down much earlier.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#197: Oct 30th 2011 at 5:44:16 PM

Loki was originally just a trickester spirit, and he was imprisoned with the snake above his head for much more petty reasons; instead of killing Balder, he insulted the other gods.

Balder indeed as originally a much more morally ambiguous character, and he died due to a sword, not because of mistletoe, and he died fighting against a human hero, not because Loki tricked a blind god to throw mistletoe.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#198: Oct 30th 2011 at 6:22:54 PM

How was he vulnerable to the sword? Was his invincibility a later addition?

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic
Gannetwhale Adveho in mihi Lucifer Since: Jul, 2011
Adveho in mihi Lucifer
#199: Oct 30th 2011 at 6:58:59 PM

It was a special sword from the underworld.

A single phrase renders Christianity a delusional cult
Katrika Since: Jul, 2009
#200: Oct 30th 2011 at 9:19:34 PM

Well, that'd explain it.

(Sorry for the derail, I'm just very interested in mythology.)

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic

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