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IP discussion: thread reasons, policies, other stuff

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In an effort to keep the volume of threads in IP at a reasonable level, and to encourage creating threads that address genuine problems, we need to make some notes about when to request a thread and what constitutes valid reasons for a thread. These have been mentioned in some of the other IP procedure threads, but they're being listed here for quick reference.

    open/close all folders 

    Screening of new threads 
  • New IP threads don't require approval by the staff to be opened. Still, the staff can and will lock threads created with improper reasoning and warn the troper if needed. Please take time to review the guidelines below and make sure your request is solid before submitting it.
  • A thread started within two weeks of the closing of a previous thread on the same page that doesn't have a concrete suggestion will be summarily closed.
  • Any thread started for an unreleased work's page or subpage that already has a valid image will be summarily closed. See the "Special cases" folder for more guidance on unreleased works.
  • If someone unilaterally deletes an image then, unless the image broke wiki rules (e.g. it was clearly NSFW), it should be immediately restored. No thread is required to approve this restoration. If an image is deleted in this way, please notify the mods as well.

    General notes 
  • Also refer to: About Images and Copyright, How to Pick a Good Image, and Images On Wiki Pages.
  • Going through IP for a page that doesn't have an image or an IP tag isn't obligatory, but it is strongly recommended. Otherwise, the image you put up may end up coming to the forum for work or replacement.
  • Pages that have gone through IP should have a commented-out tag showing the relevant thread(s) and any related information. Always check for these before adding a pic or requesting an IP thread for a page. If a page does have a tag, please note its information when you start a thread.
  • It's recommended to discuss image concerns and thread reasons in the threads that are pinned at the top of the forum before starting a new thread. They may be able to address the issue(s) without needing to start a dedicated thread.
  • Keep the quality criteria listed below in mind when making an image suggestion.
  • Work pages that don't have an image generally don't require an IP thread to upload one, but feel free to start a thread if you have multiple ideas.
  • Animated GIFs can't be uploaded as page pics, so don't bother trying. (The pic on Creepy Changing Painting is a bit of HTML magic and not a true GIF, in case you're wondering.)
  • In threads for specific pages, you may see people casting votes by referring to a post number and (if applicable) the number of the image in a given post. For example, "2" would refer to "the image in the second post", and "3.2" would refer to "the second image in post 3".
  • We try to operate on "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, and we try not to change an image just for the sake of changing it. In reference to this, someone might call a suggestion a "lateral move". If the image on the page is not otherwise problematic, consider if your suggestion is a clear improvement before pitching it.
  • It usually takes 5-7 [tup] votes for a pic to be considered to have consensus in a thread; pics can be put up with fewer [tup]s, but usually only at a moderator's discretion. If/when a crowner is attached to a thread, it will decide the outcome of the thread.
In crowners:
  • An option must have a minimum of a 2:1 vote ratio to be considered; this is referred to as having consensus for IP purposes.
  • If a crowner ends with no options having consensus, the crowner and thread are considered to be failed and the thread will be closed unless there is significant ongoing discussion.
  • Crowners normally run for 5 days, but can go longer if more time is needed, and can be closed early for the following criteria:
    • At any point, if the leading option has a vote balance of 10 or more and no other options have consensus. This is referred to as "super-consensus".
    • After 3 days, if the leading option has a vote balance of at least 8 and no other options have consensus.
    • After 4 days, if the leading option is the only one that has consensus.
  • Crowners can only be made by moderators and engineers, usually after discussion has stalled for a few days. Crowners can be requested by regular users by compiling and linking options in a post and hollering for it to be made into a crowner.
  • Non-moderators can add crowner options to an ongoing crowner, but cannot edit options they didn't add, nor can they call or lock a crowner. If you add an entry to an ongoing crowner, please note this in the thread.

    IP thread reasons 

High-priority image issues

  • A pic has been changed for a reason that may not be valid, or no reason at all, especially if the pic was chosen by a previous IP thread. These changes can sometimes be simply reverted by a moderator without a need for further discussion.
    • If a pic was unilaterally removed then, as noted earlier in this post, it can be restored immediately without the need for a thread or IP discussion.
    • If a pic was unilaterally changed without discussion and no IP thread slots are available, post in this thread and then holler to notify the mods. We may be able to revert the changes without waiting for a thread.
  • Not Safe For Work (NSFW)
    • If you're unsure on whether a pic fits this or not, bring it up in this thread.
    • Classic works of art containing nudity, such as Michelangelo's David or Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, don't necessarily fall into this, but appropriateness for the page in question is the key factor, and SFW options should be considered whenever possible.
    • If an image is unambiguously NSFW and needs action, but there are no IP thread slots available to discuss it, post in this thread and then holler to notify the mods.
  • The image is a spoiler. The age and/or infamy of the work the image originates from may prevent this from being considered a valid issue.
  • Watermarking. A TV channel emblem on a screencap is a "bug", not a true watermark, and is permissible as long as it's not obtrusive.
  • Meme-based images are not permitted as page pics. The sole general exceptions are Image Macro (for obvious reasons) and a work's Memes page, where they should only be considered if there are no better options.Other exceptions
  • A page has an image that is obviously from the wrong work / programming block / network / etc.
  • Copyright issues:
    • The pic implies TV Tropes is claiming the copyright.
    • The pic has been taken from a site that deals in copyrighted images or videos, especially if a watermark has been removed and/or the site is selling their content. Screencaps from videos from these sites are not permitted, either.
    • The image is the entirety of a product for sale, such as a t-shirt design.
    • Images from illegally obtained materials, such as leaks or camrips, are not allowed.
    • Using an entire work:
      • Basically, if it's copyrighted, we have to get permission to use it. This covers single-panel cartoons, photographs, entire comic strips and webcomics, and similar works. If permission is granted to use a work, it's always noted on the page in some fashion, usually in the caption and/or with the page tag. If an artist requests a specific way to display their connection to the pic, we'll do our best to honor it.
      • The creators of xkcd and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal have given us carte blanche to use entire works as needed. Permission notices for such cases aren't required.
      • Entire cards from card-based games like Magic: The Gathering are impractical but can be used. Using the art from these cards is fine.
      • Any such work that's in the public domain is free to use.
    • Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions. We'll honor a take-down request, but it's up to them to send it. We're not obliged to chase them down and ask them what their policy is. Fair use also allows us to use excerpts of works without seeking permission. In this case, the minimum needed to get the trope across should be used.
    • Per the site owner, AI generated images are allowed on TV Tropes and will be treated just like regular images.

General reasons

  • Multiple suggestions for a page without a pic. Single suggestions are currently being filtered through the Image Suggestion thread instead of getting their own threads right off the bat.
  • The current pic doesn't adequately demonstrate the trope. Examples of this include:
    • Just a Face and a Caption (JAFAAC)—the pic shows an example of the trope but relies on familiarity with its subject(s) to make the connection to the trope evident.
    • A pic that is nothing but text, or one where the text overwhelms the imagery. "May/Might as well be a page quote" is often used to describe this. There are exceptions (Spoof Aesop, for example), especially for dialogue-based tropes, but generally we want to have actual images as page pics with just enough text to support the expression of the trope.
  • Poor image quality. Graininess, motion blur, and compression artifacts are three of the most common problems. Before starting a thread for this reason, see if the Quality Upgrade thread can help find or create a nicer version of the image. Replacing images with a better-quality version is a free action, i.e. can be done without starting a thread.
    • If the size value in a pic's coding is larger than the actual size of the pic, it will stretch the pic to that width which will introduce artifacts. Check the image's properties before starting a thread; if this is the issue, a change to the coding will fix it.
    • The age of some works may make getting a truly high-quality image from them difficult. This will be taken into consideration when deciding on a pic.
    • In 2024, a minimum image size of 800px (400px on character pages) was instituted on the wiki image uploader, in an effort to increase the overall image quality on the site. Sometimes, an image is otherwise decent but a quality upgrade of that size cannot be found — this is not a valid reason to pull the image on its own, and threads to replace it must have alternative suggestions. New images smaller than 800px can be put on trope pages with Image Pickin' consensus, but only after an effort to find larger images comes up short.
  • The current pic is taken from a multi-panel work such as a comic strip or webcomic and uses more than half of the source material.
  • Fan-art on a work page instead of an image from the work itself.
  • The current pic is overly fanservicey, especially in the Creator/ namespace. In the case of Fanservice tropes, pics should be as low-key as possible while still getting the trope across.
  • Two trope pages have the same pic.
    • While it's preferred that they be separate, a trope page can have the same image as a work page or a character image from a Characters subpage. In these cases, a thread should have at least one replacement suggestion for either page.
    • Similarly, graphics can generally be reused among a work's subpages. Threads that address these will still be accepted, but should also have at least one replacement suggestion.
  • You believe you have a suggestion that better illustrates the trope than the current pic (by Image Pickin' standards, not "This is a cooler pic.")
  • A page marked as No Real Life Examples, Please! has a Real Life pic.Exceptions
  • A YMMV or Audience Reaction page has a pic that is not In-Universe.Exceptions
  • A page has an unusual image arrangement not chosen by an IP thread and you don't think it works well, e.g. having two images on a trope page or an image that's a janky collage. Some pages may have multiple pics for a reason, so check for an IP tag before starting a thread in this case.

Invalid reasons

  • Trying to solicit ideas for an image. IP has a cap of 75 threads and is usually at or near capacity on any given day, so space can't be allotted for threads whose only purpose is to brainstorm.
  • Not liking an image's art style, layout/design, or any Photoshopping or similar alterations that may have been made, provided they don't impact the pic's quality.
  • Claiming that a particular work is over-/under-represented. This can have some impact on deciding on a pic, but should never be the main gist of a thread.
  • Trying to argue that a pic you liked wasn't chosen in a previous thread, especially if it lost in a crowner, or trying to make an invalid argument that a pic doesn't work for a page even though it was chosen by a thread. Repeatedly doing this is considered griefing and is grounds for suspension from the workshop forums.
  • Some trope pages feature Visual Puns or other jokey pics rather than something that actually demonstrates the trope, usually because these pages have been very hard to find a better pic for.Example Don't request a thread just because you don't like the joke; if you've got an actual example, that's fine. Also, see the "Don't change the pic" section on the page mentioned below.

    Special cases 
For a list of pages that have unique statuses, see Image Pickin' Special Cases

General cases:

  • Pages within the FanficRecs/, Fridge/, Haiku/, Headscratchers/, ImageLinks/, Laconic/, PlayingWith/, Quotes/, Trivia/, WMG/, and YMMV/ namespaces and disambiguations default to no pic; YMMV.Home Page and Headscratchers.Home Page are the only exceptions. Pages in the Analysis/ namespace default to BUPKIS status (meaning they won't have a pic unless a really good one is found; see Image Pickin' Special Cases for more details)
  • Due to their exceptional subjectivity and persistent problems with images being poor quality and/or not illustrative, Moments pages (Awesome/, Funny/, Heartwarming/, NightmareFuel/, Shocking/, TearJerker/) are limited to one image.
  • Pages for unreleased works keep the first image that is uploaded to the page when it's created, with further pre-release images relegated to an Image Links page. Changes aren't usually permitted until the work is released.
    • This rule also covers any subpages for the unreleased work that allow images. As per policy, Moments pages for unreleased works do not allow images.
    • Images may still be pulled if they fall foul of any of the standard Image Pickin' guidelines. Moments page images for unreleased works will always be pulled.
    • If an image on one of these unreleased work pages is changed without discussion, it should simply be reverted. No thread is required. As this is enforcing wiki policies, the reversion doesn't count towards any edit war.
    • Once the work is released, a thread may be created to decide which image is to be officially used on the page. See this Wiki Talk thread for details.
  • There are a handful of pages whose pics are from works that would violate the content policy; see the Special Cases page for the list. Likewise, there are several pages whose pics are from works whose content features material that contains bigotry, prejudice, or similarly intolerant viewsnote . In both cases, the images on these pages illustrate their respective tropes and are to be left on their pages unless/until an equally illustrative image from a non-problematic work can be found.

    Image Pickin' flowchart 

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/ip_flowchartdrawio_8_transformed.png

Text version:

Is the page on Image Pickin' Special Cases?

  • If yes, start a thread.
  • If no, does it already have an image?

Edited by Willbyr on Sep 22nd 2025 at 7:42:31 AM

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#201: May 23rd 2012 at 12:26:54 PM

[up] That one's iffy...it was a case of Eddie not seeing some of the problems with it that others were and deciding that it could go on the page. It's not exactly a "don't change this pic", more of a "it's fine, it can stay." If someone comes up with a slam-bang replacement (no pun intended), we can start a thread for it.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#202: May 23rd 2012 at 5:17:31 PM

Can we get Word of Mod please on whether the image of a Magic The Gathering card falls under the "entire strip from a (web)comic" rule?

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#203: May 23rd 2012 at 5:37:16 PM

Nope, it's only 50% and the generic logo 50%.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#204: May 23rd 2012 at 5:54:42 PM

He means whole Magic cards (face) in general, not the back of one as in the above M:TG link. Example: [1].

Possibly the first post in this thread should be edited, it implies "no entire works" is only about comics (and not everything): "An entire strip from a (web)comic; displaying a few panels is fine but showing the entire strip is not. Single-panel cartoons are not permissible for the same reason."

edited 23rd May '12 7:02:55 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#205: May 23rd 2012 at 7:15:50 PM

I have a hard time applying the same standard of usage protection to them as we do to artworks given their mass-production nature, but if the rule extends to them as well then that's fine...I only know of two pages that would be affected by removing an entire card from the page.

edited 23rd May '12 7:16:39 PM by Willbyr

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#206: May 24th 2012 at 2:11:24 AM

(edit) Okay, posted in another thread is that "word from on high is that we can use an entire MTG card as a page pic until WOTC actually complains". So the rule about comics does not in fact apply to Magic cards. Thanks for clearing that up. It may be useful to put it in the top post somewhere.

edited 24th May '12 2:19:05 AM by Spark9

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#207: May 24th 2012 at 4:10:01 AM

[up] Done, along with a slight reformatting of that section.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#208: May 24th 2012 at 4:49:14 AM

Regarding the section on Gary Larson - I thought that Eddie had said that a cartoonist's unwillingness to have his images on this wiki is not a strong argument? We've been removing Far Side cartoons because they're single-panel comics, not because Gary said so.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#209: May 24th 2012 at 6:02:23 AM

[up] Larson's mentioned as a specific example of someone who's stated that they prefer their work to not be used online...I'll take a look at that and see if it needs to be worded a little differently.

EDIT: I moved that into a note on that section, and tweaked the wording in the "artist permission" section a smidge.

edited 24th May '12 6:10:30 AM by Willbyr

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#210: May 24th 2012 at 6:17:01 AM

[up] Okay, so if any artist indicates he prefers his work not to be used, then that is an instant and automatic pull for all pages containing his work; is that correct?

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#211: May 24th 2012 at 6:19:55 AM

[up] Yep.

Oh, and something from the last staff meeting - per Deboss' suggestion from a while back, pics on YMMV and Audience Reaction pages should now be in-universe only. They're not insta-pulls, but if you see one that doesn't fit that, start a thread for it. I'll add that to the main list.

edited 24th May '12 6:22:28 AM by Willbyr

DarkConfidant Since: Aug, 2011
#212: May 24th 2012 at 6:38:56 AM

To the part where it says "Please have a concrete suggestion for a trope page that doesn't have a pic", could you add in something signifying that this rule is relaxed somewhat for new tropes out of YKTTW who's sponsor was unable to get a picture at that time.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#213: May 24th 2012 at 7:14:43 AM

[up][up]I think that will work mainly if it also says, "please check for existing IP tags before doing so" - for Paranoia Fuel or The Scrappy, for example.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#214: May 24th 2012 at 10:01:56 AM

[up] Done.

[up][up] I tweaked that section; how's it look?

rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#215: May 24th 2012 at 10:03:11 AM

Thought that Gary Larson's preference doesn't matter. [1] Honestly confused by the contradictory statements.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
DarkConfidant Since: Aug, 2011
#216: May 24th 2012 at 10:08:47 AM

[up][up] Looks good to me. (Just figured official policy should match general practice.)

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#217: May 24th 2012 at 10:21:29 AM

[up][up] I'll discuss that part with the staff tonight if I get time...at least to me, I see a creator saying they don't want their material used online as equivalent to "I'll sue if I find it being used", and I think we need to just avoid that possibility entirely.

edited 24th May '12 10:21:43 AM by Willbyr

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#218: May 24th 2012 at 10:59:07 AM

[up] That sounds odd to me. Generally creators who don't like their work somewhere have no basis whatsoever of suing. Removing images at a creator's request has a moral basis, not a legal one.

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#219: May 24th 2012 at 12:23:00 PM

Fair use doesn't have to factor in a creator's opinion about the excerpt's use. Since we use images for illustration, rather than as an example of the work under examination, it in no big deal to drop Larsen's stuff. Even though he was probably talking about a completely different usage online than we make of images.

The general rule, though, is that authors don't get to tell us how to excerpt things from their work. As long as it is Fair Use, it is fair to use.

edited 24th May '12 12:23:23 PM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#220: May 24th 2012 at 12:28:53 PM

Whoops, nevermind, ninja'd...so, that probably means that that section needs to either be rewritten or stricken entirely.

edited 24th May '12 12:30:02 PM by Willbyr

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#221: May 24th 2012 at 12:34:18 PM

Easier to strike it.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#222: May 24th 2012 at 12:38:16 PM

[up] True, and I'd be fine with that, but someone may make the argument someday, so how's this sound for a rewrite:

** Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions. Ethical/moral issues with this are a separate matter and are up to the individual troper.

edited 24th May '12 12:38:49 PM by Willbyr

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#223: May 24th 2012 at 1:07:08 PM

This is a better:

** Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions.

The last sentence doesn't add anything and kind of confuses the issue.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#224: May 24th 2012 at 1:56:24 PM

[up] Fair enough; that latter point was raised in a discussion in another thread, but the other part is more important. I'll make the edit..and it's done.

edited 24th May '12 1:58:49 PM by Willbyr

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#225: May 24th 2012 at 2:17:25 PM

Sorry for the complete topic change, but since images that went through Image Pickin' (excluding clocked/stale threads) are usually tagged, what happens to images with "quick keep" threads like the Large Ham [1] or Foreign Queasine [2] one?

My feeling tells me that Large Ham should get an IP tag, Foreign Queasine not so much.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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