In an effort to keep the volume of threads in IP at a reasonable level, and to encourage creating threads that address genuine problems, we need to make some notes about when to request a thread and what constitutes valid reasons for a thread. These have been mentioned in some of the other IP procedure threads, but they're being listed here for quick reference.
- New IP threads don't require approval by the staff to be opened. Still, the staff can and will lock threads created with improper reasoning and warn the troper if needed. Please take time to review the guidelines below and make sure your request is solid before submitting it.
- A thread started within two weeks of the closing of a previous thread on the same page that doesn't have a concrete suggestion will be summarily closed.
- Any thread started for an unreleased work's page or subpage that already has a valid image will be summarily closed. See the "Special cases" folder for more guidance on unreleased works.
- If someone unilaterally deletes an image then, unless the image broke wiki rules (e.g. it was clearly NSFW), it should be immediately restored. No thread is required to approve this restoration. If an image is deleted in this way, please notify the mods as well.
- Also refer to: About Images and Copyright, How to Pick a Good Image, and Images On Wiki Pages.
- Going through IP for a page that doesn't have an image or an IP tag isn't obligatory, but it is strongly recommended. Otherwise, the image you put up may end up coming to the forum for work or replacement.
- Pages that have gone through IP should have a commented-out tag showing the relevant thread(s) and any related information. Always check for these before adding a pic or requesting an IP thread for a page. If a page does have a tag, please note its information when you start a thread.
- It's recommended to discuss image concerns and thread reasons in the threads that are pinned at the top of the forum before starting a new thread. They may be able to address the issue(s) without needing to start a dedicated thread.
- Keep the quality criteria listed below in mind when making an image suggestion.
- Work pages that don't have an image generally don't require an IP thread to upload one, but feel free to start a thread if you have multiple ideas.
- Animated GIFs can't be uploaded as page pics, so don't bother trying. (The pic on Creepy Changing Painting is a bit of HTML magic and not a true GIF, in case you're wondering.)
- In threads for specific pages, you may see people casting votes by referring to a post number and (if applicable) the number of the image in a given post. For example, "2" would refer to "the image in the second post", and "3.2" would refer to "the second image in post 3".
- We try to operate on "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, and we try not to change an image just for the sake of changing it. In reference to this, someone might call a suggestion a "lateral move". If the image on the page is not otherwise problematic, consider if your suggestion is a clear improvement before pitching it.
- It usually takes 5-7
votes for a pic to be considered to have consensus in a thread; pics can be put up with fewer
s, but usually only at a moderator's discretion. If/when a crowner is attached to a thread, it will decide the outcome of the thread.
- An option must have a minimum of a 2:1 vote ratio to be considered; this is referred to as having consensus for IP purposes.
- If a crowner ends with no options having consensus, the crowner and thread are considered to be failed and the thread will be closed unless there is significant ongoing discussion.
- Crowners normally run for 5 days, but can go longer if more time is needed, and can be closed early for the following criteria:
- At any point, if the leading option has a vote balance of 10 or more and no other options have consensus. This is referred to as "super-consensus".
- After 3 days, if the leading option has a vote balance of at least 8 and no other options have consensus.
- After 4 days, if the leading option is the only one that has consensus.
- Crowners can only be made by moderators and engineers, usually after discussion has stalled for a few days. Crowners can be requested by regular users by compiling and linking options in a post and hollering for it to be made into a crowner.
- Non-moderators can add crowner options to an ongoing crowner, but cannot edit options they didn't add, nor can they call or lock a crowner. If you add an entry to an ongoing crowner, please note this in the thread.
High-priority image issues
- A pic has been changed for a reason that may not be valid, or no reason at all, especially if the pic was chosen by a previous IP thread. These changes can sometimes be simply reverted by a moderator without a need for further discussion.
- If a pic was unilaterally removed then, as noted earlier in this post, it can be restored immediately without the need for a thread or IP discussion.
- If a pic was unilaterally changed without discussion and no IP thread slots are available, post in this thread and then holler to notify the mods. We may be able to revert the changes without waiting for a thread.
- Not Safe For Work (NSFW)
- If you're unsure on whether a pic fits this or not, bring it up in this thread.
- Classic works of art containing nudity, such as Michelangelo's David or Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, don't necessarily fall into this, but appropriateness for the page in question is the key factor, and SFW options should be considered whenever possible.
- If an image is unambiguously NSFW and needs action, but there are no IP thread slots available to discuss it, post in this thread and then holler to notify the mods.
- The image is a spoiler. The age and/or infamy of the work the image originates from may prevent this from being considered a valid issue.
- Watermarking. A TV channel emblem on a screencap is a "bug", not a true watermark, and is permissible as long as it's not obtrusive.
- Meme-based images are not permitted as page pics. The sole general exceptions are Image Macro (for obvious reasons) and a work's Memes page, where they should only be considered if there are no better options.Other exceptions
- A page has an image that is obviously from the wrong work / programming block / network / etc.
- Copyright issues:
- The pic implies TV Tropes is claiming the copyright.
- The pic has been taken from a site that deals in copyrighted images or videos, especially if a watermark has been removed and/or the site is selling their content. Screencaps from videos from these sites are not permitted, either.
- The image is the entirety of a product for sale, such as a t-shirt design.
- Images from illegally obtained materials, such as leaks or camrips, are not allowed.
- Using an entire work:
- Basically, if it's copyrighted, we have to get permission to use it. This covers single-panel cartoons, photographs, entire comic strips and webcomics, and similar works. If permission is granted to use a work, it's always noted on the page in some fashion, usually in the caption and/or with the page tag. If an artist requests a specific way to display their connection to the pic, we'll do our best to honor it.
- The creators of xkcd and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal have given us carte blanche to use entire works as needed. Permission notices for such cases aren't required.
- Entire cards from card-based games like Magic: The Gathering are impractical but can be used. Using the art from these cards is fine.
- Any such work that's in the public domain is free to use.
- Some creators do not want their work used outside their control at all, but fair use means that we are not legally bound to honor this for the wiki's purposes, aside from the aforementioned restrictions. We'll honor a take-down request, but it's up to them to send it. We're not obliged to chase them down and ask them what their policy is. Fair use also allows us to use excerpts of works without seeking permission. In this case, the minimum needed to get the trope across should be used.
- Per the site owner, AI generated images are allowed on TV Tropes and will be treated just like regular images.
General reasons
- Multiple suggestions for a page without a pic. Single suggestions are currently being filtered through the Image Suggestion thread
instead of getting their own threads right off the bat.
- The current pic doesn't adequately demonstrate the trope. Examples of this include:
- Just a Face and a Caption (JAFAAC)—the pic shows an example of the trope but relies on familiarity with its subject(s) to make the connection to the trope evident.
- A pic that is nothing but text, or one where the text overwhelms the imagery. "May/Might as well be a page quote" is often used to describe this. There are exceptions (Spoof Aesop, for example), especially for dialogue-based tropes, but generally we want to have actual images as page pics with just enough text to support the expression of the trope.
- Poor image quality. Graininess, motion blur, and compression artifacts are three of the most common problems. Before starting a thread for this reason, see if the Quality Upgrade thread
can help find or create a nicer version of the image. Replacing images with a better-quality version is a free action, i.e. can be done without starting a thread.
- If the size value in a pic's coding is larger than the actual size of the pic, it will stretch the pic to that width which will introduce artifacts. Check the image's properties before starting a thread; if this is the issue, a change to the coding will fix it.
- The age of some works may make getting a truly high-quality image from them difficult. This will be taken into consideration when deciding on a pic.
- In 2024, a minimum image size of 800px (400px on character pages) was instituted on the wiki image uploader, in an effort to increase the overall image quality on the site. Sometimes, an image is otherwise decent but a quality upgrade of that size cannot be found — this is not a valid reason to pull the image on its own, and threads to replace it must have alternative suggestions. New images smaller than 800px can be put on trope pages with Image Pickin' consensus, but only after an effort to find larger images comes up short.
- The current pic is taken from a multi-panel work such as a comic strip or webcomic and uses more than half of the source material.
- Fan-art on a work page instead of an image from the work itself.
- The current pic is overly fanservicey, especially in the Creator/ namespace. In the case of Fanservice tropes, pics should be as low-key as possible while still getting the trope across.
- Two trope pages have the same pic.
- While it's preferred that they be separate, a trope page can have the same image as a work page or a character image from a Characters subpage. In these cases, a thread should have at least one replacement suggestion for either page.
- Similarly, graphics can generally be reused among a work's subpages. Threads that address these will still be accepted, but should also have at least one replacement suggestion.
- You believe you have a suggestion that better illustrates the trope than the current pic (by Image Pickin' standards, not "This is a cooler pic.")
- A page marked as No Real Life Examples, Please! has a Real Life pic.Exceptions
- A YMMV or Audience Reaction page has a pic that is not In-Universe.Exceptions
- A page has an unusual image arrangement not chosen by an IP thread and you don't think it works well, e.g. having two images on a trope page or an image that's a janky collage. Some pages may have multiple pics for a reason, so check for an IP tag before starting a thread in this case.
Invalid reasons
- Trying to solicit ideas for an image. IP has a cap of 75 threads and is usually at or near capacity on any given day, so space can't be allotted for threads whose only purpose is to brainstorm.
- Not liking an image's art style, layout/design, or any Photoshopping or similar alterations that may have been made, provided they don't impact the pic's quality.
- Claiming that a particular work is over-/under-represented. This can have some impact on deciding on a pic, but should never be the main gist of a thread.
- Trying to argue that a pic you liked wasn't chosen in a previous thread, especially if it lost in a crowner, or trying to make an invalid argument that a pic doesn't work for a page even though it was chosen by a thread. Repeatedly doing this is considered griefing and is grounds for suspension from the workshop forums.
- Some trope pages feature Visual Puns or other jokey pics rather than something that actually demonstrates the trope, usually because these pages have been very hard to find a better pic for.Example Don't request a thread just because you don't like the joke; if you've got an actual example, that's fine. Also, see the "Don't change the pic" section on the page mentioned below.
General cases:
- Pages within the FanficRecs/, Fridge/, Haiku/, Headscratchers/, ImageLinks/, Laconic/, PlayingWith/, Quotes/, Trivia/, WMG/, and YMMV/ namespaces and disambiguations default to no pic; YMMV.Home Page and Headscratchers.Home Page are the only exceptions. Pages in the Analysis/ namespace default to BUPKIS status (meaning they won't have a pic unless a really good one is found; see Image Pickin' Special Cases for more details)
- Due to their exceptional subjectivity and persistent problems with images being poor quality and/or not illustrative, Moments pages (Awesome/, Funny/, Heartwarming/, NightmareFuel/, Shocking/, TearJerker/) are limited to one image.
- Pages for unreleased works keep the first image that is uploaded to the page when it's created, with further pre-release images relegated to an Image Links page. Changes aren't usually permitted until the work is released.
- This rule also covers any subpages for the unreleased work that allow images. As per policy, Moments pages for unreleased works do not allow images.
- Images may still be pulled if they fall foul of any of the standard Image Pickin' guidelines. Moments page images for unreleased works will always be pulled.
- If an image on one of these unreleased work pages is changed without discussion, it should simply be reverted. No thread is required. As this is enforcing wiki policies, the reversion doesn't count towards any edit war.
- Once the work is released, a thread may be created to decide which image is to be officially used on the page. See this Wiki Talk thread
for details.
- There are a handful of pages whose pics are from works that would violate the content policy; see the Special Cases page for the list. Likewise, there are several pages whose pics are from works whose content features material that contains bigotry, prejudice, or similarly intolerant viewsnote . In both cases, the images on these pages illustrate their respective tropes and are to be left on their pages unless/until an equally illustrative image from a non-problematic work can be found.

Text version:
Is the page on Image Pickin' Special Cases?
- If yes, start a thread.
- If no, does it already have an image?
- If yes, is it a Moments (Awesome, Awesome Art, Awesome Music, Funny, Heartwarming, Nightmare Fuel, Shocking, Tear Jerker) subpage?
- If yes, does it have multiple images?
- If yes, start a thread.
- If no, do you have any replacement suggestions in mind?
- If yes, start a thread.
- If no, use the Moments Images Cleanup Thread
.
- If no, start a thread.
- If yes, does it have multiple images?
- If no, do you have more than one suggestion in mind?
- If yes, start a thread.
- If no, is it a work or creator page?
- If yes, just add your suggestion.
- If no, use the Image Suggestion Thread
. (If the page doesn't have an IP tag, you can also just add your suggestion, but this isn't recommended.)
- If yes, is it a Moments (Awesome, Awesome Art, Awesome Music, Funny, Heartwarming, Nightmare Fuel, Shocking, Tear Jerker) subpage?
Edited by Willbyr on Sep 22nd 2025 at 7:42:31 AM
"... assuming that Viewers Are Morons and that anyone who comes to this site that doesn't happen to go on the forums is a goldfish who will poop their pants and cry if they see an image that reads right to left."
Check out my fanfiction!Well, if you honestly think that those readers who have never seen manga can't figure it out be reading a simple note, then you really do think Viewers Are Morons.
There are a bunch of unnecessary words following that. And it's still a strawman, for what it's worth.
Check out my fanfiction!Adding the note just adds an extra step for the reader, which goes against the whole "conciseness" thing.
And as I said in another thread, the fact that manga publishers don't flip is irrelevant here because we aren't a manga publisher.
Reaction Image RepositorySomething that was brought up in the other thread was the possibility of flipping images but also adding a note to inform readers of the alteration. Personally, I would at least consider that to be better than simply flipping the images with no warning whatsoever. Couldn't we at least make that much of a concession so that manga readers can at least be guaranteed to understand the image upon a second viewing?
"I would also prefer that the images remain true to the source material"
If we are going to do that, we need to stick to the actual source material, not an English translation of it. Of course, that means that any and all Manga based images that rely on the text to convey the meaning will have to be pulled.
![]()
I have already stated that my top priority is clarity (but clarity for everyone, not just for non-manga readers). Faithfulness to the source material is to be maintained as much as possible, but may be sacrificed for clarity if necessary. I have had reason to question the necessity and worth of that sacrifice, but my priorities have remained constant.
Of course, I am fairly certain that I didn't really need to explain my position that thoroughly anyway. It's quite clear that you were deliberately misinterpreting my words in the most ludicrous manner possible (and in that regard, you picked the worst person for that purpose, since I'm not even an avid manga reader myself). No one would interpret faithfulness to the original source so strictly as to mean using the original language.
(On a side note, I actually can think of an instance of an untranslated manga image being used for illustrative purposes; see Alternate Character Reading.)
edited 26th Feb '15 4:18:15 PM by MrL1193
I'd say translating changes it far more than just flipping it. Word choice matters far more than which direction it's read, and it's usually impossible to keep the same words with the same connotations and the same flow of language. And with that there's a lot of arguing about whether to translate literally or pragmatically. The latter is pretty much what we're doing with images, just not about translation.
Check out my fanfiction!"No one would interpret faithfulness to the original source so strictly as to mean using the original language. "
I do in fact interpret it as such. This is not me trying to be absurd or deliberately misintepreting anything. My position is quite simple - either we can make changes or we can't.
Right-to-left vs. Left-to-Right is generally not a decision made for artistic reasons, neither is the (primary) language used. Both decisions are made according to the expectations of the target audience. The manga images are Rt L simply because that is what people in Japan expect, just like an American comic is done Lt R because that is what is expected in America (or any other European derived culture). Manga is written in Japanese because that is what is expected in Japan, American comics are written in English because that is what is expected in America. Since the decisions are made for exactly the same reasons, any objection to changing one applies 100% to changing the other. Can't have it both ways.
No, there is a much stronger reason that they are written in those languages: Most Americans cannot understand Japanese, and most Japanese cannot understand English. This goes far beyond mere expectation; translation is done so that readers can understand the text at all. Such a dramatic change is not comparable to just changing the reading order.
You also seem to be suggesting that just because we can't avoid all types of changes, there's no point in trying to avoid any of them. That is not true either. It's not an all-or-nothing deal like you make it out to be.
edited 26th Feb '15 5:42:45 PM by MrL1193
And yet not making that small change is so objectionable? You've been fighting equally hard over it.
The people who bought the left-to-right-reading mangas knew what to expect—or, at the very least, they did after reading the first page and had no further problems. The flipped manga images here on TV Tropes give no such indication. (And before you say it again, no, I do not consider the mere fact that we're on an English website to be enough of an indicator.)
edited 26th Feb '15 5:57:46 PM by MrL1193
Nice deflection, there.
It's a small change that helps comprehension for most people. Of course it's objectionable to just ignore an easy improvement.
Check out my fanfiction!Said small change is not an improvement for everyone; it is quite the opposite for others. That drawback is what I find objectionable, especially when there are alternative solutions. But this is familiar ground to us by now.
Also, I am still curious as to whether or not you were serious when you mentioned adding an explanatory note to flipped images.
But it is an improvement for most people, whereas keeping it as it is is a drawback for most people. There are no alternative solutions suggested with fewer or lesser drawbacks than just flipping the image.
Doesn't matter if the suggestion was serious or not if no one likes it. The main point was to demonstrate that the argument that you can just have an explaining note isn't pointing in any specific direction.
Check out my fanfiction!Well, you can hardly say that "There are no alternative solutions suggested with fewer or lesser drawbacks" if you haven't examined all of them. We've spent plenty of time debating the merits and drawbacks of adding notes and leaving the images as they are, but as far as I can recall, only one person has expressed an opinion about the alternative you introduced—flipping images and adding notes. That's not yet enough to conclude that no one likes it.
So now I'd like to ask you: Were you considering this solution when you said there were no better alternatives than what we've been doing? And if so, what do you not like about the idea?
You know, it just hit me: Do we have actual, solid evidence that leaving the manga images unflipped actually causes sufficient problems to non-manga-reading viewers that it negatively impacts our site? Just a handful of complainers would not accurately reflect the true extent of the problem.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I am going to vote for just adding a note for them and leaving them alone.
Having every manga flipped without and kind of note actually screws with those who read manga and recognize that black and white with an anime style read the right bubbles first, we would have to leave a note anyway saying not to read that way. And not every manga panel can be flipped easily, some have FX that are just not easily flipped.