TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Death Note

Go To

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#301: Mar 8th 2015 at 4:17:33 PM

[up]Again, you can pretty much ignore those statistics. Especially since you're right about Misa. She's no L, or even Light, but while ditzy, impulsive, and annoying her actual IQ is probably no lower than average.

Though saying Light kills for an ideal is pretty iffy. It's "I WILL BE THE GOD of the new world" not the other way around.

edited 8th Mar '15 4:18:51 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#302: Mar 8th 2015 at 4:22:49 PM

Well I want to think the people who wrote the story know what they're talking about... I like supplementary materials because they can often clear up mirky issues that otherwise might be debated forever.

But at least as far as these stats go, you're right, they are all hogwash.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#303: Mar 8th 2015 at 5:31:23 PM

[up]I've often taken issue with official statistics for characters. As someone who wants to be a writer, I often wonder if the problem is that the writers themselves had no particular interest in sitting down and quantifying whose stats sit where on a scale of one to ten or working out how tall a particular character is, etc (I know that I certainly don't). Then an editorial mandate forces them to, and they dash it off as quickly as possible to just get it over with.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#304: Mar 8th 2015 at 10:17:10 PM

So Light's Big Plan sure has a lot of variables... It's not quite as outlandish as I had feared though. Having faith in the fact L would close in on and capture the new Kira was a safe enough bet.

Light: "This watch was a gift from my father when I graduated high school. I wouldn't replace it."

Hm.... I still say Light cares about his father. Whether it's in a more abstract "I admire him" way or something more emotional, I'm not sure.

I think the best part about the plan was having Ryuk wrote down those fake rules. That not only cleared him and Misa of being Kira, it ensured nobody tried to destroy the notebook. That was a stroke of genius.

Ll After receiving that much affection and dedication, any human with feelings would be moved. So you've developed feelings for [Misa]?

A question I'm profoundly curious for. Really, I won't lie, a lot of my own judgment on Light's character hinges on how he handles Misa from here on out. I am kinda worried by the fact Light made sure Ryuk was the Shinigami attached to her while Rem is attached to him. I'm not sure if this matters at all, maybe Rem can still keep Light from killing her. A Shinigami can still write the name of the human they're attached to in the Death Note, right?

Granted this is all future speculation - right now Misa doesn't even have the other Death Note.

Ryuk making his triumphant return to the manga and proving he's as awesome as ever.

I love this panel. A touching moment if you ignore key element like Light's personality or the hulking, demonic shadow. It just looks so nice.

Wow, L's death was surprisingly sudden and almost anticlimactic. It took place right in the middle of the volume for crying out loud. I mean there was some build-up but I figured it was just more false build-up like has happened before. I expected L to wiggle his way out of it again but nope, Rem went through with it. Honestly I feel sorrier for Rem than L here. I think L died happy, knowing he was right. Rem died for Misa and I just don't have a lot of faith in Misa living a long, happy life. The whole point of Rem's sacrifice was that she understood Misa couldn't be happy without Light and I know Light will die relatively soon.... So even if Misa survives to that point, it's all downhill from there.

What do you mean "the world continues towards a dark era where Kira is the law"? It makes it sound so ominous and bad. Talk about some biased narrating.

So this is Near, huh? I guess those couple of vague hints L dropped that he wasn't the only L and that he was just part of a group was right on the money since they had a couple kids ready to replace him the moment he bit the big one. I couldn't tell, was it Near or the other punk who called L a big loser and failure? I'm pretty sure it was Near. You just got introduced short stuff, you can't go around insulting main characters yet. Yes L lost but wait until you see Ruk's face or something and then you can act all smug. There's forces at work here that would blow your damn mind.

I would say it would blow the other kids' mind but I'm pretty sure he's already coocoo for coco puffs.

But now Sayu has been kidnapped by the insane little twit. I wonder if this will be how Light's father meets his end? I will say, Light seemed genuinely worried about her... When he learned about this he just thought "Sayu..." while looking a bit unnerved. If it was anyone else, he'd just think "[their name] was kidnapped, how does this weaken my position and how do I rectify it?"

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens next volume. For now I'm tired.

L's death was a bit too abrupt in my opinion. I wonder if the author just got tired of him considering how quickly he was brushed aside and a replacement was pushed into play. It's great having Light and Ryuk back however. Overall the volume was pretty good. Poor Rem.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#305: Mar 8th 2015 at 10:48:39 PM

[up]The insane little twit—Mello—is quite possibly my favourite character in the series. Not because he's a good guy at all, oh no. He's a homicidal maniac and I darn well know it. But god if watching Light's reactions to his moves isn't the single funniest thing in the entire show. The utter meltdown that he has in the anime when he realises that there's nothing he can do to stop the exchange going down made the agony of the previous season's ending worth it to me. And that's just from an amusement level. From a philosophical level his existence is even better. Mello is a gangster, a kidnapper, a murderer, and a terrorist. He is everything that Light claims he is ridding the world of. And yet when Mello kidnaps in rapid succession, the head of the Japanese police and Light's own freaking sister there is nothing that our wannabe-God can do to stop it.

I said earlier that in Season 1, Light and L were running a race, but Light got a hundred metre head start. Well in Season 2 Light tries to run the same race against Near, but Near only starts a couple of metres behind, and every so often Mello reaches out from the sidelines and trips Light.

Without spoilering anything, Light cares for neither his father nor Sayu as you are going to see shortly.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#306: Mar 8th 2015 at 11:06:33 PM

It's hard for me to believe Light ever really cared that much about anyone besides himself. Even Lelouch from Geass as he became darker and darker and was willing to do increasingly terrible things still had SOME emotional bonds and scruples. Light tosses any he had without much ado. this is why i don't really find his personality during the memory gambit arc believable; genuinely good people don't become so egotistical and corrupt so suddenly.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#307: Mar 8th 2015 at 11:57:28 PM

[up]I think his personality in that arc makes sense if you assume that it's based not on being genuinely moral, but his need to feel superior to everyone else.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#308: Mar 9th 2015 at 12:47:46 AM

I think the reason why there is such a disconnect between Amnesia!Light and normal Light is that we don't see anything of Light outside of him being Kira. His family outside his dad probably has a grand total of two chapters worth of panel time total in a 108 chapter series, Word of God was he had some friends but they vanish after the first chapter. Looking back I suppose that is a weakness of the series that the world is pretty much non-existent outside of the battle between Light and L.

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#309: Mar 9th 2015 at 4:34:43 AM

Amnesia!Light is probably the most interesting thing about the character, because it pretty much tells us just how far can a man like Light trick himself into thinking he's a good person. "I would never manipulate a girl", "I remember wanting criminals dead, but I wouldn't do it", "I know I said I might be Kira, but there's absolutely no way I'd be manipulated like that!". He doesn't even show any genuine empathy while he's amnesiac, nor is he willing to sacrifice anything when pursuing Kira.

Japanese society says that an attractive, polite man with good grades is the ideal to obtain, so he becomes just that. His father is, to him, the ideal of a moral compass, but Light's lack of empathy stops him from actually understanding it.

I remember the mangaka said that, without the Death Note, Light would've become a detective, and a good one at that. I can believe he'd also be the kind of person to falsify evidence just to put a particularly difficult criminal behind bars.

Finally, in the same vein as Ambar, one of my favourite moments in the series is when L shows Light the 3 letters out of order. I love the fact that Light absolutely has to give him the right solution, but L then goes "A self-professed intelligent young man such as yourself didn't present other, more probable solutions, didn't even consider anything but the answer you gave me. Funny that.", and then tells Light his solution is wrong because he knows Kira would be riled up by that.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#310: Mar 9th 2015 at 7:09:55 AM

That earlier poster was right, this thread is all about shitting on Light.

Which sucks because nobody talk about DN anymore anywhere I post... I wish I had read or watched the series years and years ago. Probably would have found moe Light fans.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#311: Mar 9th 2015 at 7:21:25 AM

Light had tons of fans back in the day. So many "Kira was RIGHT" arguments.

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#312: Mar 9th 2015 at 7:44:16 AM

Well, I will say that Light does a few things right. He's properly paranoid, for one, his "trap" to protect the notebook, his contingency plans to learn when someone broke into the room, the "potato chip" plan, they are all pretty good stuff.

The only reason he got himself vulnerable under L's watchful eye was because he wanted to go after L, and send a message to the police while he's at it. Not a noble goal, but it was definitely a well calculated move. Unlike Ambar, I don't see this as a race with a head-start, considering Light purposefully puts himself at risk to fulfill a bigger objective (even if it's the objective of "becoming a god by force").

Really, Misa was the main reason he would get legally caught by L, initially, and that was something largely outside of his control. The memory gambit was heavily based on luck, but still a better shot than anything else he could've done.

The 2nd half of the manga, however, really highlights how flawed his goal is. We have the american mafia acting as they please (because most of its members can't actually be found by Kira), Kira supporters who don't really care for his goals, suspects being shot on sight by once-peaceful police forces, and world leaders who cow before anybody with a Death Note. And then we realize more than ever just how meaningless Light's accomplishments were.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#313: Mar 9th 2015 at 7:44:26 AM

Well apparently there are still arguments even today, just not here.

Well there wee a few arguments in the CM thread. That was where it all started for me. I know at least one or two people were saying Light cared for his family and that should keep him off the CM page.

I guess I'll see for myself in a bit when I read the volume.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#314: Mar 9th 2015 at 7:55:18 AM

On L's Moral Ambiguity

Part of it is cultural values. For example, one thing that gets commonly brought up is that he put spy cameras in Light's home. This doesn't seem like a big deal today in many cultures, but in Japan, this was considered a HUGE moral violation and abuse of power.

It's also commonly pointed out that he put Lind L. Tailor on the chopping block to test the validity of Kira's killing prowess and, shortly before he died, was willing to test the Death Note on criminals in order to ascertain the validity of the rule Light added.

This is L's ambiguity. He's still a hell of a lot better than Light, however. The popular parallel is that both characters do morally ambiguous things in the name of justice, but I find that L has a far better understanding of what "justice" actually means. If he was willing to stoop to Light's level, Light would have woken up dead a long time ago, and the plot would have ended before it really had a chance to begin.

Light reclaiming the Death Note

Another idea for a HISHE Death Note gag I like is that the entire rest of the manga is a delusion; Light was apprehended immediately after setting his hands on the Death Note after the Yotsuba arc, when he screamed, "JUST AS I PLANNED!!!" at the top of his lungs in a helicopter while sitting next to L. [lol]

In seriousness, though, a lot of people revile the Memory Gambit arc, but I really like it and feel it was very important to the character. Getting to see what Light and Misa would have been like without the Death Note drives home an important point: a lot of the character's God Complex and total disdain for human life comes from the Death Note itself. Light was given Absolute Power and, beyond that, the ability to distance himself from his crimes.

A common criticism of firearms is that they make it easier for a killer to emotionally distance himself from his victims. With that in mind, writing a name in a journal is easy. Far easier than, say, stabbing someone to death or strangling them. It's so easy that they stop even being people and just become names in a journal. Being able to dehumanize one's victims is key for any kind of professional killer, and the Death Note makes that a remarkably simple matter.

The juxtaposition of Who Light Is versus Who Light Could Be, and the same for Misa, makes one thing very clear: the villain of the story, ultimately, is the Death Note itself. Light is merely a highly proficient wielder for this corruptive instrument of death.

L's abrupt death

Fun fact: There's a live-action film adaptation that actually ends the story here with an alternate version of the scene, in which L survives being killed by the Death Note and is able to apprehend Light, because he had already written his own name in the Death Note and given himself the maximum amount of time - I want to say 23 days, but I can't quite remember - before death claims him. The final scene of the manga is then adapted to be between Light, Soichiro, and L rather than Light and Near, and we get an epilogue of L having a nice, final Face Death with Dignity scene with his butler just before the death he wrote, "Passes away peacefully in his sleep," comes for him.

edited 9th Mar '15 7:56:16 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#315: Mar 9th 2015 at 8:10:53 AM

I agree with Tobias that the DN changed Light. The impersonal way it allows you to kill is just bound to fuck anyone up.

Do I think Amnesiac Light is the most caring soul ever? No but he's not stupid or inherently malicious either. He understands how the system - how society - works. And since a person's actions are what determine their morality, not their thoughts, as long as he just continued to abide by the rules of the system, he'd be a perfectly good person.

The fact we've seen so many different people with the Death Note, and there might still be one or two more in my future, shows quite clearly that what Tobias says is true - that the Death Note is the ultimate evil of the story, not Light.

I also place a lot of blame on Ryuk. Why isn't he on the CM page? Shinigami or not, Rem shows that they have empathy and can think and feel just like humans do. Yet Ryuk takes great sadistic glee in everything Light does.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#316: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:17:23 AM

Because Ryuk is a Shinigami, an almost wholly alien being.

Furthermore, Ryuk isn't forcing anyone to do anything and certainly never expected Light to go this war. Ryuk simply dropped the DN for anyone randomly to find in hopes it'd bring him amusement. He's completely neutral in the fight and just an observer. The DN only changed Light insofar as it gave him a power and the ability to act upon it.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#317: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:21:26 AM

[up][up]And gonna call bull on most of that. We may not prosecute people for their thoughts, but if you only act like a good person for fear you'll get caught, you are still a bad person. Not as bad if you actually committed the crime, but you're hardly moral either.

I hate it when people try to absolve Light by putting the blame on the Death Note. The little bit we see of him before he picks up the book shows a narcissistic whiner, convinced that the world is broken and only he can fix it. As for what he's like during the Memory Arc, I think Jonnas N put it pretty well. Light needs to convince himself that he's the good guy, but he's ultimately not a moral person at all.

Ryuk isn't on the list because a) he's a freaking God of Death, b) he's massively overshadowed by Light in bodycount (and the one person he kills onscreen had it coming), and c) watching somebody commit crimes and laughing at it is not a qualifier.

@Jonnas N

How does Light not have a head start? He's got a magic weapon that nobody understands. Only he knows the rules of how it works, the only thing he needs to do to win is find out L's name and kill him, and he's got two Death Gods in his corner, at least one of whom is easily manipulable. L, conversely, has to not only figure out who "Kira" is, but also deduce how he kills, and get enough evidence to legally arrest him. That's a significant advantage for Light, no matter how you cut it. Light may well expose himself to L, as you note, but that's not the same as not having a lead to begin with, that's Light giving up his lead in order to feed his ego.

All the supernatural details of the case are privy only to Light and work in Light's favour and against L. Yet despite that, Light is forced to play defense from L's first appearance until the last few episodes of the arc. I think that should say something about which of the two is smarter.

@Tobias

Concur that L never sinks even close to Light's level.

edited 9th Mar '15 9:22:12 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#318: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:39:40 AM

You are of course aware that being a narcissistic whiner who thinks the world sucks doesn't mean anything, right? It certainly does not make you a bad person. It might make you an unpleasant person but far from immoral. I mean, that last part, about the world sucking, is just a fact I'm sure most of the human race would agree with. What's more, I think a substantial amount of people would pair "the world is a mess" with "and I want to fix it." That's pretty normal.

I don't believe in an innate sense of right and wrong. Law exists because we can't rely on people to do what is right.

Perhaps I agree too much with Light on the state of the world and its inhabitants but there it is. I personally see nothing wrong with Light living a crime-free life for no other reason than because he doesn't want to go to prison. Otherwise you are declaring that morality is absolute and that Light shouldn't do things just because they're wrong, which is a remarkably stacked argument all on its own.

As for Ryuk, who cares he's a God of Death? There are tons of supernatural entities on the CM page. Like I said, Rem proves they feel just as we do and pulling the "alien thinking" card is bullshit. If I drop a gun in a kindergarten playground to see what happens, I sure as hope somebody prescutes me when one of the kids kills themselves or other people.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#319: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:44:20 AM

Even Taylor and the criminals L suggested testing the Death Note on were all death row inmates slated for execution within 24 hours / 13 days. It's still shitty, but pretty much the closest-to-humane method of testing the rules.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#320: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:45:35 AM

Light had no idea Lind L. Taylor was a criminal when he killed him.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#321: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:46:37 AM

Which reflects on Light

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#323: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:53:36 AM

So we agree that Light is nothing other than a murderous shitstain?

edited 9th Mar '15 9:54:10 AM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#324: Mar 9th 2015 at 9:54:49 AM

I think The Airman was defending L there, not Light.

He was saying that the lives L threw under the bus were inmates who were already going to be executed anyway so it's not like he's killing innocent people to advance his goals or something - which Light, on the other hand, does actually do.

Also of interest: Light kills based on news reports of arrests and convictions. This is another cultural difference: Japan is a country that assumes guilt before innocence, as opposed to the U.S. that assumes innocence before guilt. How many people do you think Light has killed who were merely accused of a crime rather than actually guilty of one?

edited 9th Mar '15 9:56:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#325: Mar 9th 2015 at 10:04:26 AM

@Ambar: I just don't see this as a race to begin with. Light willingly told L that he had access to police files, then killed the FBI agents, all because he wanted to disrupt trust between L and police. His goal wasn't to escape L, it was to kill him, and to do so, he really did have to expose himself a bit (or at least he felt he should). In a race analogy, that's like Light having an obstacle in front of him that can only be surpassed by letting L gain 50 meters. So yeah, it would be a bizarre race. The mere concept of "trying to catch each other" guarantees that nobody can win by a landslide.

(And that's not even getting into specific advantages, like Light's identity being out in the open, or L having tech, money and manpower to monitor any person in Japan. Light has clear advantages, but so does L)

That said, Light could've kept doing his "God" thing and let L run into a brick wall instead of killing him, but then we wouldn't have a series.


Total posts: 1,427
Top