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First, let me make it clear that shutting down OTC altogether would not harm the wiki's mission in any way. It is being hosted solely out of courtesy toward the interests of tropers wanting to have a conversation.

Secondly, if OTC regulars don't start to report derails and stop falling for troll bait, in short, become more self moderating and participating more in bringing in moderation help when needed, I'll have no problem at all with shutting it down.

Thirdly, I'll underscore that falling for troll tactics is the fault of the fish. This forum is expected to be more savvy, not less. Stop being made fools of.


2024 update:

There is a list of banned OTC topics here. Please read it. We take these rules seriously.

Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 11:08:22 AM

deathjavu This foreboding is fa... from The internet, obviously Since: Feb, 2010
This foreboding is fa...
#276: Oct 10th 2011 at 1:29:44 PM

It's what happens when someone is "controversial and edgy" (read: blatantly racist and/or misogynistic) and everyone jumps on them for it.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#278: Oct 10th 2011 at 1:38:48 PM

Here's the definition I use:

dogpile

When many people post unfriendly responses in short order to a single posting, they are sometimes said to "dogpile" or "dogpile on" the person to whom they're responding.

or

To pile on or overwhelm, such as with criticism.

or

To get beaten up by more than one person (in this case, to have a string of posts attacking the poster rather than the content of the post.)

PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#280: Oct 14th 2011 at 6:59:17 AM

No. Peer pressure and strife without clearly spelled out reasons and logical arguments is exactly what we're trying to avoid.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#281: Oct 14th 2011 at 2:22:53 PM

I don't think a karma system would work, as 'in' people would memrely karma each other up and thus offset negative activity. Those who are otherwise good poster but not 'in', would feel the impact of a negative post more.

I like the fact that the a post counter and "member since whatever date" is more or less hidden. I could be a forum noob, or a two-year veteran. Since no one knows (heck even I don't know what I am anymore), there's a measure of anonymity.

(Not totally, as people sort of get used to seeing so-and-so around for awhile, but whatever.)

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#282: Oct 14th 2011 at 4:14:46 PM

Gonna agree with kashchei and pvtnum on this one. It's already a natural tendency of human beings to form cliques and exclude each other, no need to encourage it.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
Love Saves
#283: Oct 14th 2011 at 4:24:58 PM

In Less Wrong they have a karma system and they still seem to accomodate newbies just fine. Though nothing short of a miracle could ban Yudkowsky or Alicorn or Yvain at this point: they've got more Karma than God, so to speak. Anyway, you should totally see how they handled a Feminists VS PUA issue: it wasn't just a matter of "them VS them", all the place was involved into sorting it out and clarifying what was legit and what wasn't. Then again, a majority of Lesswrongers have an IQ over 160, so perhaps it's different for them.

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.
kyfhv Since: Aug, 2011
#284: Oct 14th 2011 at 4:49:08 PM

I'm strongly against a karma system. Whats already been said, plus it would encourage 'forum superstars' who would be partly above the rules, which would be especially bad because the rules are already very lax.

kyfhv Since: Aug, 2011
#286: Oct 14th 2011 at 5:02:04 PM

One 'superstar' on another forum eventually became a moderator. However he started breaking small rules left and right, and eventually became really annoying, and was eventually de modded and banned several times.

My point is, he was a smart, cool guy, who 'earned it', yet became an isufferable, annoying dick. Power and status corrupt people. An annoying dick who is above the rules would be terrible for the forum.

edited 14th Oct '11 5:04:12 PM by kyfhv

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#287: Oct 14th 2011 at 5:15:09 PM

I'm all for everyone being equally worthless; we already form cliques w/o having a "rewards" system in place.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#288: Oct 14th 2011 at 6:51:40 PM

Having been on another forum with a karma/reputation system, I recommend against it. People tend to give good rep for 1) witty zingers/insults, 2) posting funny jokes, 3) personal tradegy threads/posts. People tend to give bad rep for 1) feeling insulted, 2) disagreements in debates/discussions, 3) they meant to give good rep but forgot to switch it, 4) harassment*

. On that other forum, while the trolls did swiftly end up with deserved negative rep, there were also many complaints about people feeling hounded by repeated negreps with little or no justification, and the biggest assholes have the highest posrep* because they tend to be witty and present brilliant cutting one-liners.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#289: Oct 14th 2011 at 10:07:38 PM

Examples of cliques:

Us totally superior military guys, which you lazy stinking civvies must worship (joking, but there is ample evidence of a military vs. civilian mindset, if you look).

Liberals vs. Conservatives vs. whoever else is left.

USA vs. Canada/Europe/whoever else.

College grads vs. non grads.

Ageism.

Religious persuasions.

Pro-life vs. pro-choice.

Need I go on?

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
Love Saves
#290: Oct 15th 2011 at 3:31:52 AM

Those aren't cliques, those are demographics, and, besides the military, for whom that's sort of a hat, there isn't much cohesion or solidarity.

And yeah, there's reddit-like fora with the Downvote Roman hanging around, but there's also Less Wrong whic only downvotes you if you either say something blatantly stupid, are in any way rude (that includes one-liners, no matter how cool), or post in a way that is messy and hard to comprehend. They've got some damn high standards, I think it comes with the "our mission: save the world (from itself)" idea they've got going.

The guy who became a prick about his newfound powers probably was a prick in the first place: the fun thing with karma is that you can gain them as easily as you lose them, and this encourages a greedy attitude where the more points you have the less risks you take because you want moar points.

edited 15th Oct '11 3:33:18 AM by PacificState

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.
SlightlyEvilDoctor Needs to be more Evil Since: May, 2011
Needs to be more Evil
#291: Oct 15th 2011 at 5:58:47 AM

Apart from the fact that I'm not sure someone would have the time to implement a functional karma system here (usual reward for the programmer: dozens of people insult him because They Changed It, Now It Sucks! or something is not perfect); I think here it would be more likely to result in the problems Blue Ninja described rather than in something that works like Less Wrong. Less Wrong works because most of the community agrees on high standards, and because usually topics are steered away from stupidity-inducing ones like politics.

If you want karma-filtered discussions, go on reddit! Moderators wielding heavy sticks seems to work well enough here.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#293: Oct 15th 2011 at 6:07:32 AM

That's beyond our control; who becomes a mod is decided upon by Eddie and co.

PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
Love Saves
#294: Oct 15th 2011 at 7:46:20 AM

Yes, that's why I was asking: "why not get more"? If they don't do their jobs properly, just fire them. I mean, I've had a look at that "meet the staff" page, and on the whole they seem very wiki-focused. Some forum-focus might be good too. They'd be more like monitors: they evaluate if something deserves mod action, they take preemtive measures to see if they can avoid calling the SWAT, and only do if they really have to. Plus, it'd be a good way to solve the time gap, to select people who live in different areas. There could even be teams who take turns, so that they can be off-duty and relax, and also not let it get to their heads, keep a perspective.

edited 15th Oct '11 7:49:10 AM by PacificState

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#295: Oct 15th 2011 at 7:49:20 AM

Ignoring the fact that they have lives themselves, and may not be around to start the selection process? It's pretty simple; it's not our fight. If the powers that be deem it necessary to create more mods, it will be done; for you or I to sit here and ask why, is futile.

they evaluate if something deserves mod action,

That's what that small yellow triangle is for.

edited 15th Oct '11 7:50:07 AM by Kino

PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
Love Saves
#296: Oct 15th 2011 at 7:56:02 AM

Insufficient and inadequate by itself. This only says: "I think there is a problem here", but the result can range between "Morven gives a warning" to "Madrugada locks" to "Fast Eddie comes down like the Juggernaut and amputates a leg when it's only the fingers that got frostbite": it'll depend on who decides to deal with it and how much they bother to care about what happened exactly. And of course it's theirs to decide, what of it?

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#297: Oct 15th 2011 at 7:57:53 AM

Each of those scenarios demonstrates the fact that the mods have varying degrees of force when it comes to solving a problem. Most of they time it's the right one.

abstractematics Since: May, 2011
#298: Oct 15th 2011 at 7:59:36 AM

A couple of organized mod groups could be nice. One could be wiki-focused while the other forum-focused, for example.

Now using Trivialis handle.
PacificState Love Saves from Reef Since: Sep, 2011
Love Saves
#299: Oct 15th 2011 at 8:03:13 AM

I have to disagree on that one, otherwise I wouldn't be asking for more weak mods. Delegation, that's the trick. An overworked, beleagered person won't be inclined to look around before laying down the beatdown. Which means that anyone hollering runs the risk of undeserved sanction. Which means that people don't holler unless they've been directly attacked, becasue, they figure, the less mod attention the better. Which is sick and broken and wrong. People should be able to holler with the confidence that people will read what they do properly and have some decent understanding of what's going on before smacking everyone.

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#300: Oct 15th 2011 at 10:04:07 AM

That hasn't been the case with the holler system at all.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

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