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What if Jesus walked today in modern times?

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JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#76: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:18:24 AM

Well that WAS my idea grin, and if he can make beggars walk and blind men etc then he can at least find a way to cure AIDS.

More than likely, but I think if he can answer some of the more difficult theological questions through actual observation it would certainly help.

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#77: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:30:25 AM

I could easily see a reading of Matthew 7:15-20 and 24:23-28 being used to explain WHY people shouldn't follow this "fake prophet".

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

The idea that our modern savior would have an uphill battle against even Christians is definitely not without warrant. Unless the "lightening" effect makes it completely unambiguous.

I do find the idea that any government that had a hold of someone who could make unlimited supplies of food and alcohol would simply drop that person elsewhere a bit silly. They may increase there aid efforts if having food for themselves was not going to be an issue, but no way they're giving someone else the golden goose like that.

edited 23rd Sep '11 1:35:17 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#78: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:34:38 AM

Would YOU want to deal with the hassle if he died on your watch?

And put all of your farmers out of work?

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#79: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:40:08 AM

Who cares? It's not like they're going to die of hunger if he's somehow decided to be an unlimited food engine. A complete and utter end to world hunger would pretty much destroy our current way of living anyhow when one of our basic needs is almost always taken care of.

Kinda an unlikely scenario anyhow with the way Jesus acted. It's not like he went to the Romans and told them "Your food problems are solved, FOREVER!"

The idea that he'd be hated for "solving real world problems" is a bit cynical. I know people don't like radical change like that, but that would be like rejecting the cure for cancer because doctors would have less to do.

edited 23rd Sep '11 1:41:24 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#80: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:46:09 AM

So what are they doing? If he can make litterally ANYTHING food based then you are kind of stuffed. You either complete bugger your food producing network (and then as soon as he dies you lack the neccesary infrastructure) or you give him away and just let him do what he does best, help the weak and sick and so on.

And its more because you are potentially putting millions of people out of work, what else can they do? I mean you can feed everyone, but they can't afford their houses, they can drink wine but they can't wash in it, and how are they going to pay the waterboard if you don't have any income.

OFC you could start retraining initiatives, but what happens when jesus dies. At best you've got 15 years of pure food production if we go by the last sample, and that's not long enough to even begin to change the neccesary structure of food production!

Hence why dropping him into Africa may be the best PR move, the best Security move and the best moral move. Your not harming your own interests by allowing him to feed all the hungry people now are you?

pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#81: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:50:04 AM

I'd be more concerned about the potential civil war within Christianity, to be honest.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#82: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:01:02 AM

Ok, so we’ve gone from the discussion of if Jesus came back to the scenario of a limited half-life magic food engine. So, supposing a magic food and alcohol engine came into existence, was breakable, generally unfixable if broken and we had a pretty good idea when it would break from over usage humanity would probably start taking crazy advantage of that, but take this opportunity to right some wrongs in the amount of time we have with said magic food engine.

Given that the basic need of feeding a populace is a non-issue for a limited time, we could probably accommodate people who’ve lost their jobs and need support because what they were doing was food oriented. There’s A LOT of disposable income floating around because people aren’t spending it on food, or are spending less on food and we can probably spare a few bucks to make sure people don’t die of exposure.

OR Hell, we’ll make them GINGERBREAD houses with TARPS over them they can stay in because FOOD is a thing we can make “literally anything” of.

Honestly, the idea that a man coming along and making an enough food to feed the world for as long as he lived being a BAD thing in some pretty cynical way of thinking. Yes there’s repercussions to the much change that quickly, but that change is UNLIMITED FOOD.

edited 23rd Sep '11 2:02:12 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#83: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:06:57 AM

-shrug- Just trying to see all the angles in this case.

A lot of disposable income? You'd be putting every supermarket, bakery and fast food outlet out of business! Do you have any idea the amount of unemployment that would generate? It'd basically mean that there would be massive changes to the global economy and it would only last for (if last time is anything to go by) about a decade! TOPS!

And do you honestly think that people are more likely to give money to people who've lost their homes? We've got more than enough money NOW to do that and we don't. The best we could hope for would be a slight improvement, and even then it would not offset the vast number of suddenly jobless people.

It might well be "cynical" but thats why I suggested Africa, there is less infrastructure to damage there, and if He simply "healed the ground" as well as made food then there wouldn't be as many difficulties.

edited 23rd Sep '11 2:09:11 AM by JosefBugman

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#84: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:22:01 AM

You'd be putting every supermarket, bakery and fast food outlet out of business!

So...it's a magic food engine that teleports the food directly to people so there's no need for them to travel to places where they'd normally get food?

We are so far outside talking Jesus it's not even funny.

And what's this decade nonsense? We're putting a greatly reduced lifespan on Jesus in the modern era?

This doesn't sound like anything to do with a Messiah descending down to Earth, this sounds like some bizarre Be Careful What You Wish For scenario vaguely resembling the abilities of a Messiah in such a way that such a thing sounds bad.

The problem is your version of events is contingent on people acting exactly the same and doing nothing when something that completely changes the order of the world happens.

It might well be "cynical" but thats why I suggested Africa, there is less infrastructure to damage there, and if He simply "healed the ground" as well as made food then there wouldn't be as many difficulties.

OK so say we are talking a completely compliant Jesus who just walks around feeding and healing everyone. There'd be no issue because we could BRING him to these places long enough to wave his magic divine wand in fix the worlds problems.

An earth without hunger, disabilities, or sickness? I think we'd work out what little is left to maintain and this world where Jesus comes, but he only comes for a limited time and not to bring about his heavenly kingdom on earth for some reason.

edited 23rd Sep '11 2:27:16 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#85: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:26:20 AM

How would you sell it? They'd be reduced to distribution hubs that could be more easily manned by volunteers, espeically if people were complaining that they could get it for free. You'd end up with far fewer profits and less investment in it, thus less jobs. I will admit I overreacted in the first part, but there is still a problem.

He lived till he was 32 (ish) right? Well in which case it probably wouldn't be till he hit around about 20 that he'd start producing food.

I'm just saying that not all of what jesus "did" last time would make sense economically within some countries. Hence why I keep suggesting Africa.

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#86: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:28:29 AM

He died at 32 because people usually don't survive being stabbed through the wrists with nine inch nails and impaled in the chest with a spear.

And are you REALLY worried about money in a Star Trek like universe with replicators?

edited 23rd Sep '11 2:29:34 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#87: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:31:59 AM

History has a tendancy to repeat, at least in regard to prophets, how likely do you think it is that he'd survive with everyone here? I mean its already pointed out how Christianity would split between "believers" and "unbelievers" as it were.

I am when it doesn't last and it doesn't work. Replicators are all well and good, but what are people meant to DO, we don't have a starfleet, or an engineering corps for freakin' space ships. We don't have few enough people to make Start Trek "work".

Essentially fewer people are needed in order to make a "star trek" future, because otherwise you've got too many people for too few jobs. And you just end up with a lot of bored people with time on their hands.

And the second reason is because it could give Africa time to rebuild and renew. Without the constant problem of getting food it might give people more of a chance. The problem really is that if you determined to only have jesus around for a limited time is that its never going to be enough to change the world for the better. It'd be like sticking a plaster over a cancerous growth. You can do limited good, but even your philosophy will get fucked over.

edited 23rd Sep '11 2:49:07 AM by JosefBugman

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#88: Sep 23rd 2011 at 3:00:16 AM

You’re scenario is getting pretty contingent on “what if” aspects that pan out EXACTLY like it did in the Bible at some points and COMPLETELY DIFFERENT at other points . So sure, if Jesus came back in a way where all his miracles backfired horrible in some way that destroyed the world economy just before he was killed, that would be bad. But that’s an oddly specific risk inconsistent with what happened the first time around.

And no, we don’t have star fleet. But having something that makes unlimited food and thus eliminated a major world problem is when you start working to MAKE one.

Also if there was one SINGLE point all this food was coming from, we’d still have to MOVE it to the rest of the world, meaning there’d be a wealth of new jobs in the logistics industry and all fields related to supporting it. Not to mention unless we start air shipping the things that spoil, we can’t get EVERYTHING over to people instantaneously in a way to destroy the food industry overnight.

The idea of a man creating unlimited all types of food for 6+ billion daily still requires a crazy amount of planning and forethought. It’s not the sort of thing that suddenly happens and then everyone with a job related to food is fired the next day.

edited 23rd Sep '11 3:00:47 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#89: Sep 23rd 2011 at 3:31:56 AM

And what good would people who have, up to this point, worked on counters BE to that effort? Fuel perhaps?

All good points and I conceed that I was not correct in my ideas about the food distribution industry, but this still leaves farmers unfortunatly out in the cold. It could basically mean that almost all of various states in the US would go bankrupt.

SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#90: Sep 23rd 2011 at 3:37:42 AM

[up] Aren't you sort of missing the point of post-scarcity?

If essentially all goods were no longer hard, work (and most social obligations, since they directly or indirectly revolve around resources) would become obsolete and unnecessary, people would be freed to spend their days doing what they wanted to do.

Now that would be some deliverance: Freedom from need. tongue

edited 23rd Sep '11 3:39:35 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#91: Sep 23rd 2011 at 3:39:29 AM

A lot of people want to work though. I know I certainly found it rather dull when I finished uni work and had nothing to do.

germi91 Public Servant from Spain Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Public Servant
#92: Sep 23rd 2011 at 6:41:37 AM

[up] Plenty of hobbies or other useful things to do, even in a post-scarcity society. Why not grow your own vegetables? Have sex? Become an actor?

"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#93: Sep 23rd 2011 at 8:10:39 AM

[T]he problem would more be wether he was actually able to answer any questions about some of the more theologically tricky areas of the faith.

Since I'm obviously qualified to speak for Jesus,

I think his response to most questions about the aspects of theology of which different branches of Christianity are in dispute would be this:

"Really? You're really asking me that? Does it matter? Just do as I say and you'll be good, it's not that frickin' complicated! ... Oh, and the anwer's 42. Yes, that's how many angels can dance on the head of a pin; I would've told you something more important that's to do with that number, but since you had to ask me that, that's what you get."

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
#94: Sep 23rd 2011 at 9:42:54 AM

"do what I say and it'll be good" stopped being a good arguement as soon as it was first postulated. Someone is always going to say "proove it".

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#95: Sep 23rd 2011 at 10:42:19 AM

The Divine Command theory of morality was regarded with skepticism by Greek philosophers before Jesus was even born the first time around.

edited 23rd Sep '11 10:42:27 AM by Clarste

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#96: Sep 23rd 2011 at 1:48:13 PM

I imagine he is pretty alarmed at suddenly being transported 2000 years into the future.

Nah, he'd just kind of be like the Terminator. Stand up, get some clothes, then go right to work. Except instead of shooting people, he's un-shooting people.

1.5 billion Christians, give or take, would probably want a word with you if Jesus proved his identity and you still wanted to do anything to him remotely harmful.

More than that. There are a heck of a lot of non-Christians who have plenty of respect for him as an all-around exemplar of decency, and I'd imagine they'd be rather miffed too.

He would get about 15 feet then get hit by fast moving traffic.

Naw, man.

The traffic would get hit by him. And his first parable would be why you don't speed.

Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#97: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:35:39 PM

He'd be asking what happened to the non-violence-turn-the-other-cheek stuff.

More than that. There are a heck of a lot of non-Christians who have plenty of respect for him as an all-around exemplar of decency, and I'd imagine they'd be rather miffed too.
There are also a lot of nominally Christians who wouldn't give a damn. Plus the Christians who would think he's a false prophet. Makes it kind of hard to count.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#98: Sep 23rd 2011 at 2:40:12 PM

Who cares? It's not like they're going to die of hunger if he's somehow decided to be an unlimited food engine. A complete and utter end to world hunger would pretty much destroy our current way of living anyhow when one of our basic needs is almost always taken care of.

Why am I picturing Jesus chained up in a massive labyrinthine shipping warehouse, being forced to conjure food around the clock while the government is making statements on behalf of the Messiah who nobody has seen for years that they keep caged up?

JosefBugman Since: Nov, 2009
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

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