What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page
Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:
- Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
- Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
- Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one
- discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
- General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
- Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
- Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
- Spelling and grammar issues.
- The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
- Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
- Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
- Jaywalking.
Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.
edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation
I did a wick check which you can find in the TRS post I linked — roughly two thirds of the usage is "police state", a fifth were ZCE or ambiguously worded, and the rest were misuse under both definitions (this is after I cleaned the page of ZCEs some two years ago). Right now there's no evidence for the "oppressive police force" trope getting any usage (though of course I checked 50 wicks out of 944, roughly 5% of the trope's wicks); you can, of course, check more wicks and see whether a larger number checked will have a different pattern emerge.
Um, okay. The issue seems to be disconnection between the name and the description of this trope. How about changing the description to match the name and waiting? If State Police turns out to be a useful trope, and it's really nonexistant, it can always be added later.
The description for Art Game was recently changed up without any discussion from this thread. What should we do about it?
She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/AIt would be helpful to say what the nature of the change was.
Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
They mostly just expanded the description to what an Art Game is, which is fine but I think it would be better if we got some input from other tropers.
For reference, the old description was this:
And the new one is this:
While all games set out to create an experience in some way, these are probably going to be a little avant-garde about it. Though it might not always be the case, it's fair to expect them to be story-rich, and often very stylized. And don't be surprised if they include deep themes or commentary about ethical dilemmas, or society, or some other heavy topic. While in many cases the actual gameplay experience is minimal, others are just as developed gameplay-wise as more typical games (some can even be quite difficult), it's just that the story or visuals or themes are played up more and are commonly considered to be at least as important as the gameplay to the overall experience.
Note that the term "art game" isn't really a "genre" as such, as the games listed below encompass everything from puzzle games to third-person shooters. It's more of a blanket term for games that are commonly seen to have artistic qualities, or whose developers are perceived to have taken a highly artistic approach to game design.
The changes are the introduction of a few sentences at the start ("these are probably going to be a little avant-garde about it. Though it might not always be the case, it's fair to expect them to be story-rich, and often very stylized. And don't be surprised if they include deep themes or commentary about ethical dilemmas, or society, or some other heavy topic") and of the final paragraph.
I don't love the use of transitions to start sentences with, but otherwise I'm not really seeing any issues.
I think the additions could use some better wording—it's a little bit awkward—but other than that, they're fine. They aren't changing the trope's definition or scope, simply stating something that is common in such games. So, keep 'em, but if they can be reworded for greater clarity and conciseness, it'd be great.
Trailblazer of old tropes. (She/her)Hello all. I was recently made aware that edits I made to Art Game ended up on the radar, here. I have attempted to integrate the feedback provided and have revised my prior changes so it now reads:
While all games set out to create an experience in some way, these are probably going to be avant-garde about it. They are commonly story-rich and very stylized, and will often wrestle with deep themes or commentary about ethical dilemmas, or society, or other similarly heavy subject matter.
The current description of The Horde (Along with the examples on the main page, but that's another matter) leaves me confused about its exact definition. What's given doesn't seem to fit within its stated nature as a kind of government, since it doesn't really explain how it might function as one past a single sentence (As in, what it's relationship to The Federation or The Empire would be, or what have you; it seems to just be "Pillaging The Good Kingdom").
It's also not written in an effective, genre-neutral way (Like throwing in a mention of "swooping Birds Of Prey descending from the dark of space" to the opening paragraph, for instance), and leans heavily on an Always Chaotic Evil image (Which, as far as I can tell, doesn't seem to be mandatory for this trope?). There's no mention of how neutral or benign Hordes might be involved in a story (Like, heroic barbarian underdogs against The Empire).
Lastly, I'm unsure as to how the hordes made up of non-sentient beings mentioned in the last paragraph fit into this trope, or why Proud Warrior Race is brought up as something wholly distinct from this trope (Given that plenty of examples show the considerable overlap between the two).
"TV Tropes looks like if Tumblr got a little crazy at a party last night and brought someone home"If the definition is outright unclear, there's not a lot this thread can do; we only rewrite the descriptions to clarify definitions that are otherwise understood and agreed upon
Any redefining effort needs TRS
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 18th 2025 at 9:07:22 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallYup, it seems an issue best served by being brought to the TRS. If it helps any, the laconic defines The Horde as "A vast tide of barbarian warriors sweeping across the land." Of course, laconics are often faulty and out of touch with their trope's actual definition, but they might sometimes be useful.
Trailblazer of old tropes. (She/her)Um, but isn't it the point of the horde that it's Chaotic Evil and invading? Good barbarians would be a different trope.
You'd think that, but Barbarian Tribes also seem to often be evil and invading, and other tropers' comments on the matter and their understanding of the tropes' definitions + the description of The Horde mentioning it + examples of The Horde actually pretty frequently not about evil Hordes, nor about them actively invading someone else, all suggest that it's not defined that way either.
I definitely need to take both of them to TRS (And probably also Hordes from the East, after looking it over). Thanks for the feedback. I've got a lot more Wicks to check before this is done...
"TV Tropes looks like if Tumblr got a little crazy at a party last night and brought someone home"If the problem is with the laconic, that should be brought to the relevant improvement thread.
No, the problem I saw was with the main description (and as a result of its definition itself being unclear, after I had that pointed out to me).
Edited by Rotide on Sep 19th 2025 at 12:41:32 PM
"TV Tropes looks like if Tumblr got a little crazy at a party last night and brought someone home"Something I noticed in The Maiden Name Debate whilst looking for family tropes...
As it stands, The Maiden Name Debate is very much an American issue, and even then things are changing over there. The page is ancient, created in 2008, so it's about time for a more nuanced description that explains the multiple facets of this trope. ''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
From Monty Haul:
The phrasing here is unclear. For example, does "their stats" refer to the party, or the enemy that was just referred to as "him"? If it's because of multiple people randomly adding content, it was so long ago the history isn't visible.
I can barely even understand what the paragraph is trying to say. What I think it's saying is that the game master may be making loot plentiful as a way of helping the party prepare for a daunting challenge later on. Am I in the ballpark?
Yeah, same here.
How's this sound?
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Not just (North) American, it's also the norm in many European countries. I agree some disclaimer about that should be added about it being regional, and within that it's fading with more women just keeping their surname. I would also remove that parenthetical, I don't see the problem.
The description of Handsplay in Theater has a long list of ways the trope can be subverted. Is it necessary? I also want to ask about the soft-split between "Mutual", "Perverted" and "Accidental".

Since nobody seems to have anything more to say re: Evil Reactionary, I'm changing it to petersohn's suggestion.
As for Police State - the description is definitely of the oppressive police force, not a police state, you're right. It even lists tropes about police forces as "variants" - but The Dictatorship and Dystopia as supertropes, which is kind of confusing. Maybe it should be split? Into Police State and State Police, or something like that?