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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5701: Nov 5th 2024 at 10:26:52 PM

Any other thoughts on the Hate Sink stuff? I'm still interested in a sandbox, personally.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Loneandlevel Troper, i.e. a Debaser of precious metals from Russian superborehole project (haunted) Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Mu
Troper, i.e. a Debaser of precious metals
#5702: Nov 8th 2024 at 12:41:59 AM

[Wrong Thread]

Edited by Loneandlevel on Nov 8th 2024 at 9:48:18 PM

SO SOFTLY A SUPERGOD DIES
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5703: Nov 8th 2024 at 12:43:07 AM

If it's that vague, it likely needs TRS to figure out an actual definition. This thread can't help.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Loneandlevel Troper, i.e. a Debaser of precious metals from Russian superborehole project (haunted) Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Mu
Troper, i.e. a Debaser of precious metals
#5704: Nov 8th 2024 at 12:46:14 AM

Alright, I might try asking there instead.

SO SOFTLY A SUPERGOD DIES
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5705: Nov 8th 2024 at 10:40:01 AM

Hello, a little while back I created the draft Loves Doing Taxes for TLP, but realised that it overlapped too significantly with Paperworkaholic and deleted the draft. However, I feel some of what I came up with could be used to improve Paperworkaholic's current description, as regards the issue of taxes, and characterisation?


     Current description 
When you need forms filled out in triplicate and filed in a very particular way, the Paperworkaholic is your man. Not only because he's especially adept at crossing t's and dotting i's, but also because he genuinely enjoys doing so.

A paperworkaholic is never happier than when sitting before a stack of files and folders that need to be taken care of and is your greatest ally when face to face with a Vast Bureaucracy.

The Paperworkaholic can crossover into many bureaucrat tropes. See Badass Bureaucrat for times when their skills are put to impressive use. They might be an Obstructive Bureaucrat depending on just how seriously or literally they take their position. Being a Paperworkaholic may not necessarily prevent someone from being a Corrupt Bureaucrat. The opportunities for such may even be part of what they like about the bureaucracy.

Their love of the job usually means that they will not be a Beleaguered Bureaucrat unless they happen to be having a particularly bad day. Most Desk Jockeys would prefer to be back in the action, though a few may come to prefer their position behind a desk. The Paperworkaholic is most likely a Clerk as well.


     Revised description 
When you need forms filled out in triplicate and filed in a very particular way, the Paperworkaholic is your man. Not only because he's especially adept at crossing t's and dotting i's, but also because he genuinely enjoys doing so.

A paperworkaholic is never happier than when sitting before a stack of files and folders that need to be taken care of and is your greatest ally when face to face with a Vast Bureaucracy. Not even the Intimidating Revenue Service can faze them, as they enjoy filing taxes just as much, and will happily haul out their meticulous accounts. A Paperwork Punishment is absolutely useless against them, and they'll probably even thank you for it.

The Paperworkaholic can crossover into many bureaucrat tropes. See Badass Bureaucrat for times when their skills are put to impressive use. They might be an Obstructive Bureaucrat depending on just how seriously or literally they take their position. Being a Paperworkaholic may not necessarily prevent someone from being a Corrupt Bureaucrat — the opportunities for such may even be part of what they like about the bureaucracy. Their enjoyment of the job means they will not be a Beleaguered Bureaucrat unless they happen to be having a particularly bad day. However, while the Paperworkaholic is usually a bureaucrat or Clerk of some kind, some folks just love paperwork even when it isn't part of their career.

In any case, being a Paperworkaholic is generally used to establish or emphasise that a character is a rule-abiding goody-two-shoes type, a nerdy intellectual who finds complex bureaucratic processes trivial or stimulating, or incredibly boring in all that they do.

May overlap with Mundane Made Awesome. Compare and contrast the Desk Jockey, who would prefer to be back in the action, though a few may come to prefer their position behind a desk.


Edited by Azorius24 on Nov 26th 2024 at 11:35:23 AM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
Delete message
#5707: Nov 11th 2024 at 3:48:16 PM

[up]I have no femiliarity with that trope, but whether it has overlap with another one or not is something that has to be resolved in the TLP draft. This thread is to fix descriptions of existing trope pages.

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
Tremmor19 he/him (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
he/him
#5708: Nov 11th 2024 at 6:53:57 PM

Does anyone know what a Journal Roleplay actually is? I wanted to fix the description but its got no laconic and only describes itself as "X Meets Y"

Heres the current description, which never gets around to actually defining the concept:

As an outgrowth of their enormous fandom contingent, LiveJournal, InsaneJournal, and Dreamwidth have a large and lively (and dramatic) roleplaying community. No, not that kind of roleplay. Or that one. The format has also taken off on other personal blog-based sites, such as Tumblr, Twitter, and Deviantart.

Essentially, it's a cross between the Play-by-Post Game and Character Blog, where the player characters come from various fandoms. Original characters may also be seen; initially, these were less common, and disallowed in most games for fear of a Self-Insert Fic, but the culture has changed over time, and beginning in the late 2010s, most games now allow them.

Edited by Tremmor19 on Nov 11th 2024 at 10:36:57 AM

Veanne Since: Jul, 2012
#5709: Nov 11th 2024 at 10:07:57 PM

It's kind of a roleplaying game played on a blog.

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5710: Nov 11th 2024 at 11:40:59 PM

[up][up][up] I deleted the TLP draft as there was too much overlap, and decided to use some of said overlapping content to improve the description of Paperworkaholic

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Tremmor19 he/him (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
he/him
#5711: Nov 13th 2024 at 9:58:39 PM

[up][up] do you know anything about what differentiates it from other RP to merit its own genre page, other than "being on a blog"? The description says its played on livejournal, but I don't know how that works or what kind of game it is. Is it different from Play-by-Post?

[down] thank you!

Edited by Tremmor19 on Nov 14th 2024 at 9:28:02 AM

Veanne Since: Jul, 2012
#5712: Nov 14th 2024 at 9:07:59 AM

Well, normally Play-by-Post isn't posted out on the Interwebs for everyone to read, far as I know. But otherwise, no, I can't think of anything.

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#5713: Nov 14th 2024 at 2:24:19 PM

A minor point with First-Run Syndication: it says "Today, with the event of cable television and internet providers creating their own content..." Shouldn't that be "advent"?

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5714: Nov 14th 2024 at 2:33:17 PM

[up] Yep, I'd say go ahead and change that, looks like a straightforward enough typo.

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
animuacid The girl of the window from Astyr residence in Lilysthia's grounds Since: Jan, 2024 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
The girl of the window
#5715: Nov 14th 2024 at 2:40:00 PM

[up][up] Yes, change to advent.

Bumping this from a few pages back.

I want to update this paragraph about Visual Novels in No Dub for You.

Visual Novels localized in America usually don't get English dubs (particularly from Sekai Project) because visual novels are a very niche interest in America, and most of them don't have much voiced dialogue anyway. Usually the only visual novels to get English dubs are developed by indie developers or Americans themselves.

First, there's a lot of Americentrism when people all over the Western world enjoy the same English translation. Then, I don't think it's correct to single out Sekai Project because the other major VN translating companies (JAST, MangaGamer, Shiravune and NekoNyan) never do dubs either. Finally, what's more common nowadays are fully-voiced Visual Novels (with the exception of the protagonist) and the amount of dialogue being very large and costly to dub.

With that said, I suggest the follwing rewrite:

Visual Novels localized to English usually don't get English dubs because visual novels are a very niche interest outside Japan, and most of them have so much voiced dialogue it would be really costly. Usually the only visual novels to get English dubs are developed by indie or Western developers.


In Rape as Drama, there is a long paragraph that complains about fanfiction supposedly overusing rape, going as far as using the Sturgeon's Law to claim that 99% of fanfics do that badly. Should it be removed?

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5716: Nov 14th 2024 at 3:04:39 PM

[up] Regarding the Rape as Drama description, I do see the paragraph about fan fiction as an unnecessary tangent.

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#5717: Nov 14th 2024 at 3:16:34 PM

[up][up] The changes about visual novels seem for the better.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5718: Nov 14th 2024 at 4:25:56 PM

[up][up][up]Regarding Rape as Drama, there's absolutely zero reason to single out a particular medium (because I'm guessing movies, TV series, and print media always handle rape with grace and taste?). I support cutting the paragraph.

Tremmor19 he/him (Y2: Electric Boogaloo)
he/him
#5719: Nov 14th 2024 at 9:48:08 PM

yea, ditch that paragraph


For some reason, Gecko Ending specifies that it only applies to visual adaptations (excluding, i suppose, podcasts? Radio adaptations? I can see no reason for that, can I remove that word?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#5720: Nov 14th 2024 at 9:49:15 PM

That's really weird, but removing it would technically change the trope's definition... it's one of those "really minor but may still need TRS on a technicality" issues. I guess?

Edit: Or, well, that'd be true if it wasn't a unilateral edition. Change away, I think.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 14th 2024 at 12:50:05 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
animuacid The girl of the window from Astyr residence in Lilysthia's grounds Since: Jan, 2024 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
The girl of the window
#5721: Nov 15th 2024 at 6:12:29 AM

I've made the changes to No Dub for You and the request for Rape as Drama since the page is locked.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#5722: Nov 15th 2024 at 1:40:15 PM

The IP thread for Navel Window brought up the point that the distinction at the tail end of the description:

To fit this trope, the opening should be around the same size as the examples in the page pic, or at least small enough that the character can mostly or completely cover it with one hand.

may be splitting hairs too much. The reason I included that when I TLP'd the page (at least in its original wording, what's there is a tweak) is that, from my observation, midriff exposure tends to come in three general levels: fully bared (Faye Valentine, OG Lara Croft), covered except for the abs (Lion-O, Sue Storm's costume from the 90s), and this trope, where the outfit's basically saying "Here's my belly button!" and pretty much everything else in the midriff area is covered. Is this enough of a distinction?

Edited by Willbyr on Nov 15th 2024 at 3:40:48 AM

petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#5723: Nov 15th 2024 at 1:56:29 PM

I think the description should focus of the intent of a piece of clothing instead of the exact appearance. Several clothing tropes has been cut or disambiguated for being simply "character wears X", yet some remained, including Navel Window. The reason it is a trope is because it shows something about the character or otherwise some deliberate intent from the creator. As I get it from the description, this trope should convey a type of modest fanservice. So yeah, I guess we could cut that paragraph, but still, if it's a huge opening at the belly while the sides are still covered, that's still not this trope but Bare Midriffs Are Feminine (if it conveys the character's femininity).

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5724: Nov 16th 2024 at 5:33:53 AM

[up]Fully agree.

I get the need to distinguish it from Bare Midriffs Are Feminine (midriff fully bare, front and back), but going into that much detail about the size feels like hairsplitting.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Nov 16th 2024 at 5:34:07 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#5725: Nov 18th 2024 at 5:51:43 PM

I think Vindicated by Reruns should have a section that explains streaming also counts for the trope or get an exclusive Vindicated By Streaming trope.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.

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