Could we possibly message that trooper about the ROCEJ in the description?
I agree on scrapping all but the first paragraph.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
chaos catby with a flannel shirt addiction
But what needs to be done to the description of Phony Newscast to make it more clear and concise?
I used to plug my deviantart here but turns out the link was too long.
Suggested edits to Knight of Cerebus here: Sandbox.Knight Of Cerebus. No huge changes, but I'd like to get some feedback before starting the cleanup.
Not sure about the Threshold Guardian comparison (left it in from previous description). I guess any villian is sort of a Threshold Guardian, as the hero has to get past him to achieve his goals, but that doesn't seem more true for this than for any other villain. Threshold Guardians are also usually intermediate obstacles in a larger goal, and often times it seems like the Knight of Cerebus will be the Big Bad, The Dragon, or at least an Arc Villain or Disc-One Final Boss (so not all that intermediate).
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Bee Afraid's description looks like it puts too much emphasis on swarms of bees. This shouldn't be a problem, normally, were it not for someone trying to make a TLP draft for bees being a menace
- which is what Bee Afraid already is.
What should be done?
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
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- If Bee Afraid actually is being applied to individual bees, and isn't just a bee version of The Swarm...
Then redefine it, I assume.
Maybe make a TRS, or use this as a impromptu TRS.
Boss Warning Siren has this review-ish section. Cut it?
Edited by Malady on Jul 8th 2018 at 7:56:14 AM
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The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
The subject of Monstrous Mandibles is still pending resolution. First post here.
That TLP draft is about wasps, not bees.
Send it back? Needs a new name, not to mention a better description. Although are there any examples that wouldn't be covered by Flower Mouth or Insect Aliens?
We used to have a trope called "Gosh Hornet" but it was cut for being too similar to the bee trope we already have. Both hornets and wasps are played the same way as bees, anyway.
Okay, our newest launch (apparently) is Reduced to Dust. I notice that it's got a pothole to Killed Off for Real that I think is a sinkhole. Here's the context:
Given that Killed Off for Real only applies to works that have some form of Death Is Cheap going on, does anyone mind if I scrub the reference to Killed Off for Real from the description?
Regarding Wicked Wasps and Bee Afraid.
The Wicked Wasps trope seems to be part trope description and part analysis. The trope itself seems to be the second paragraph, where wasp themes are used for villains/antagonists, either with the villain being a wasp (in animal stories) or the Big Bad having wasp soldiers (i.e., the wasp-themed villain is a cause of the Bee Afraid trope), or the villain/antagonist having wasp themes/motifs to him the way snake and reptile symbolism is often used for villains/antagonists. In short, it's a villainous/antagonist symbolism trope.
However, Bee Afraid is an attack trope. Wicked Wasps can potentially trigger the Bee Afraid trope, but it's not the only type of trigger. For example, the bear-finds-honey example; as an attack trope, it would also be neutral as protagonists could trigger Bee Afraid against villains (even Wicked Wasps villains) in defence of home, friends or loved ones.
Since they do have the potential to be different tropes, I'd suggest chopping most of the Wicked Wasps description and creating an Analysis page for that information to be put on. The trope description can be taken from a tiny part of the first paragraph, all of the second paragraph, and the final bolded sentence at the end. Something like this:
As a result, wasps have developed strongly negative reputations in popular culture. Non-sapient wasps will be vicious, aggressive animals or roving swarms of droning pain; sapient wasps run the gamut from simple bullies to ferocious raiders and barbarians preying upon their fellow insects â or, if large enough, preying upon people. Wasp-themed characters, whether they simply use wasp imagery or are associated with actual wasps, are rarely pleasant people either.
This is not a list of all wasps in fiction. This refers specifically to wasps being portrayed as evil, villainous or monstrous.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 10th 2018 at 10:37:59 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I'm not Wicked Wasp's creator/sponsor, but that seems reasonable.
I personally had been in favor of sending it back to TLP myself. Anyone objecting to this suggestion?
BTW, you're looking for Insectoid Aliens (which I dislike for overly focusing on extraterrestrials; we have many examples of what amount to non-extraterrestrial versions of the trope).
While I was discussing with the recently launched Scorpion People's TLP draft creator (Theriocephalus) about expanding the trope to include non-centauroid examples (which, incidentally, Theriocephalus agreed with), I suggested doing the same to its sister trope Spider People, since it already has non-centauroid examples of its own and I didn't see a point in suggesting the creation of a whole new trope just for non-centauroid spider/human hybrids. Theriocephalus tentatively agreed with my proposal, but also made the reasonable suggestion to bring this up in the forum since Spider People's article is much older and neither of us had a hand in creating it (not that it would've given either of us an actual claim of "ownership" over it or the like, but still...).
My suggestion entails using Our Mermaids Are Different as a model. Its composite article image nicely illustrates the range of diversity that a mermaid's appearance can take, and that's only while sticking to the "humanoid upper half, piscine lower half" body type; meanwhile, the appearance section discusses several possible body types that have been and are used for designing mermaids in both folklore and modern media note .
For the description, I'd emphasize that the two tropes' essence is about creatures whose bodies are obviously a fusion of human and spider/scorpion parts, regardless of the exact configuration. It could be in the form of a centauroid bodyplan, an otherwise completely human body with the addition of the most iconic body parts of the trope's respective arachnid (i.e. spider legs for Spider Peoplenote , and a scorpion's sting-bearing tail for Scorpion People), or it could be a much more mix-and-match amalgamation where it's not clear where the human and nonhuman portions start and end (best example: Regura Nakamura's insect-girl art and doujinshi; most of the latter is NSFW, for the record).
For the composite image, I'd combine the current images of Spider People and Scorpion People with images of a Pathfinder Jorougumo
◊ and RWBY's Tyrian Callows, respectively. Theriocephalus for their part suggested the Scorpion God
from Magic: The Gathering for Scorpion People.
Edited by MarqFJA on Jul 11th 2018 at 8:01:39 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Wicked Wasp seems sufficiently different to Bee Afraid to me, but this discussion should be happening on the TLP comments.
Looks good to me, go ahead and make the changes.
Any opinions on the Knight of Cerebus rewrites? "It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Loot Command needs changes, if 4tell0life4 is right, and any pick up button is an example, as they said here.
Its first two paragraphs, make the trope into something more specific than that. I advise changing from this:
This is that "way". This is a move that allows you to extract those goodies from your enemies' corpse. There is no "one" way to do this, and it may or may not involve Applied Phlebotinum. Like if your enemies are sand monsters, you have a weapon that absorbs sand you can use to absorb their essence upon dazing them. Sometimes though, the move is as simple as walking up to a dead enemy and carving up it's guts with an ordinary knife.
To Something like This:
- In some games, items dropped by enemies are literally dropped, and your character has to voluntarily collect them, instead of automatically doing so. This trope is when the collecting requires a command of some sort, instead of just moving the character to the location of the object.
Edited by Malady on Jul 14th 2018 at 6:05:06 AM
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^ looks good to me.
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Amateur Veteran
All right, so: as Marq FJA mentioned, I happen to be the sponsor of the Wicked Wasps TLP; however, I didn't realize this matter was being discussed here until just today, when I visited for an unrelated reason, namely the issue with Spider People and Scorpion People that Marq FJA brought up.
@Wyldchyld's proposal sounds perfectly reasonable to me as well. I was worried that the description was overly bloated anyway — I tend to ramble when I write — so chopping it down to the essentials and putting the rest in an analysis page seems like a good idea. I'll go and do that now.
Their analysis is also fairly close to how I see it — Bee Afraid describes an action, an activity or event, where someone is threatened or injured by stinging insects, regardless of how this comes about or the motivations of the stingers and the stingee. Wicked Wasps, as I have it, describes a character type and deals with their motivations, goals and personality regardless of what they're doing at any given moment.
On a related note — a topic that came up in the TLP comments is that Bee Afraid is meant to focus on any situation where someone is threatened by a bee, wasp, or similar creature rather than by an entire, homogeneous swarm thereof. If this is so, then the description and laconic seem like they need to be seen to.
Regardless, I obviously support the modification of Spider People and Scorpion People. I'm willing to make the changes to Scorpion People myself — should we go ahead and modify Spider People likewise?
So, no one's against the Loot Command edit?
Human Disguise seems like the last bit of its description could be improved, mainly because the first sentence is not clear if it's discussing the subtrope, or Human Disguise itself.
Change from this:
To this:
- Hugh Mann, a human disguise done badly.
- Humanshifting, for shapeshifters who are only able to change into humans from their natural form.
- Mobile-Suit Human, for when something small is piloting a device that looks like a human.
- They Look Like Us Now is when an enemy species figures out how to do this.
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- Alphabetized! Thanks!
Edited by Malady on Jul 16th 2018 at 8:33:34 AM
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Amateur Veteran
^ I'd support that edit. It's clearer and easier to understand.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Seconded, with the caveat that the subtropes ought to be ordered alphabetically.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
- Changing Human Disguise now.
On Loot Command... The loot command is to acquire objects generated by the Item-Drop Mechanic?
So, absorbing sand from a sand monster with a special dagger, doesn't count, unless the monster must be dead before the absorbing happens?
Such in-battle item getting, is similar, to Video Game Stealing, but different from it?
Is Weapon of X-Slaying, a subtrope of Achilles' Heel, or just related, and must it be specifically made to kill X-es, or just specifically better at doing so than other things?
The description of Weapon of X-Slaying is different on Achilles' Heel, than its own description and Laconic.
... Also, Depleted Phlebotinum Shells, a subtrope of Weapon of X-Slaying, or not?
Edited by Malady on Jul 18th 2018 at 1:50:12 AM
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Amateur Veteran
Since it doesn't seem like anything has been done regarding the Spider People and Scorpion People thing, I'll make the discussed edits tomorrow unless someone else would rather do them. Is that all right?
"A weapon which gets extra bonuses against a specific enemy type. Sometimes they may outright kill them in one hit."
It's not meant to be too specific to one or the other, it seems. It is also a supertrope.
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
So, Achilles' Heel's list of "Other versions and variations of the Achilles Heel"
Are a combination of subtropes and sister tropes? So, that list should be more clearly sorted...? Dunno precisely what sorting, however?
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I think it was missed in the Wicked Wasp discussion, so I'm going to repost:
I notice that Reduced to Dust has a pothole to Killed Off for Real that I think is a sinkhole. Here's the context:
Given that Killed Off for Real only applies to works that have some form of Death Is Cheap going on, does anyone mind if I scrub the reference to Killed Off for Real from the description?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
No, they're all subtropes.
I don't mind
^ - Changing Achilles' Heel then. ... And possibly every trope description...
Puberty Superpower says that Growing Up Sucks is " a character possesses a power throughout childhood, but loses it at puberty instead.", but Laconic.Growing Up Sucks isn't that precise, and To Prevent World Peace uses Growing Up Sucks for power loss at 18.
So, what needs fixing, and what trope is "Power Loss at Adulthood-ish"? Need it for Sleepless Domain...
Edited by Malady on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:38:59 AM
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I agree. The first paragraph is the trope. Everything else is practically off-topic at best and breaks the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement at worst.
Edit:
Actually, looking at the YTTKW archive
, those two paragraphs have been tacked on at some point after trope launch. The original description was:
More likely to happen in settings where humans are depicted as the cancer killing the universe.
The Big Bad tends to do this often if he's not human himself, or if he is not human anymore.
Despite its use as an insult, humans are apes.
A subtrope of Fantastic Slur
Looking through the page history, the primate conservation reference was added in 2015 and has been tweaked over time. A lot of the information appears to have started life in the Real Life folder and then been moved to the trope description, with the most problematic references of the second paragraph being added relatively recently (December 2017). With the exception of the conservation references in 2015, most of the trope description seems to have been added and then tweaked over time by a single troper.
Regarding the current description, leaving the first paragraph and scrubbing the rest will probably fix it.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 30th 2018 at 10:36:22 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.