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Trope Description Improvement Drive

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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#926: Nov 5th 2013 at 10:31:19 AM

That reminds me... We're not allowed to list Fanservice on a non-Ms. Fanservice / non-Mr. Fanservice character's trope list (as a catch-all entry for all their fanservice, that is), are we?

edited 5th Nov '13 10:31:53 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#927: Nov 5th 2013 at 10:33:20 AM

As far as I know, no.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#928: Nov 5th 2013 at 3:52:00 PM

I think I'm just about the only one who disagrees with changing the description of Ms. Fanservice, but if you wanna change that, I suggest changing Mr. Fanservice as well, just to be fair.

I think the general description of the skin-showing and the outfits should stay, though. To just say "deliberately shows off sex appeal" is too broad a description. I was there when a line like that was used as the original description, and it led to Trope Decay anyway.

edited 5th Nov '13 4:25:22 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#929: Nov 5th 2013 at 4:59:04 PM

It seems like the problem of Trope Decay was solved by simply making the criteria super easy for any character to meet, like resolving Square Peg Round Trope by just widening the hole in completely so any peg will fit.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#930: Nov 5th 2013 at 5:00:36 PM

Since I'm clearly outnumbered, I'll ask this. What should be the description to Ms. Fanservice?

Or rather, what should be the requirements that we should add to the description?

edited 5th Nov '13 5:05:15 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#931: Nov 5th 2013 at 5:07:41 PM

The main Fanservice page potholes "designated fanservice characters" as Ms. Fanservice, so that's a good start.

Also note that anything I say for Ms. Fanservice applies for Mr. Fanservice, because as far as I can see the only difference between the two is gender.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#932: Nov 5th 2013 at 5:09:14 PM

"Designated fanservice magnet" is far too broad. We might actually have to change the description for Fanservice in general if we can't get a consensus.

I think Ms. Fanservice should be a character who has.... at least two or three Fanservice tropes dedicated to them. I dunno how that fits for Mr. Fanservice, but it's just a suggestion.

edited 5th Nov '13 6:20:58 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#933: Nov 5th 2013 at 6:25:15 PM

This sounds like this may be moving out of projects territory and into TRS space. This thread is for clarifying the descriptions of tropes that already have a solid definition. From the way the discussion has been going, I think we're finding that Ms. Fanservice doesn't have an agreed-upon definition at this point, which means it needs to go to TRS.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#934: Nov 5th 2013 at 6:26:37 PM

Well, I'll ask this instead. What should we add to the description for Ms. Fanservice?

edited 5th Nov '13 6:27:36 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#935: Nov 5th 2013 at 6:28:31 PM

[up][up] I initially meant to take this to TRS subforum, but the queue was full. :/

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#936: Nov 5th 2013 at 6:31:21 PM

Hence why I asked what should be added to the description.

Take High School Of The Dead. The main page mentions that every girl qualifies as it, conventionally speaking, but the teacher is signaled out in particular as the fanservice magnet.

Evidently, the setting seems important in determining who is or isn't Ms. Fanservice while not discounting anyone else who provides fanservice.

edited 5th Nov '13 6:34:09 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#937: Nov 5th 2013 at 7:12:45 PM

I'd rather the changes you guys are talking about be discussed in a TRS thread. It's full but it just needs one more thread closed for there to be an opening.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#938: Nov 5th 2013 at 7:16:12 PM

We'll just have to wait for it to be opened.

edited 5th Nov '13 7:16:31 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#939: Nov 5th 2013 at 7:29:43 PM

Yeah, I think so. If need be, we can do some talk in the trope's Discussion page, but this is definitely outside the scope of this topic.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#940: Nov 12th 2013 at 11:29:37 AM

I'm going to bring up Doomsday Clock, which is an actual trope but the entire description is devoted to describing the Trope Namer, instead of giving a clearer definition of what the trope is.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#941: Nov 12th 2013 at 11:30:38 AM

That actually seems like a case of "Is that a trope or about the clock?".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#942: Nov 12th 2013 at 11:33:03 AM

It should be about the trope. It just needs a sentence or two. I'll take a stab at it.

edit to add: There we go.

edited 12th Nov '13 11:45:48 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#943: Nov 12th 2013 at 12:05:39 PM

Seems much better now.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#944: Nov 12th 2013 at 12:16:53 PM

I tweaked it slightly (to link to more related tropes).

Thanks for the help.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#945: Nov 12th 2013 at 1:53:32 PM

Did I mention that it feels really strange for me to see the Fast One taking the time to look up this thread? No offense, but I would've thought he'd more important/interesting stuff to do than to concern himself with such a comparatively minor-in-the-greater-scheme-of-things project.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#946: Nov 12th 2013 at 10:06:23 PM

wink I'd rather do this than chase vandals, really.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#947: Nov 13th 2013 at 6:37:16 AM

Quite understandable.

Now, I have come across two tropes that I believe need some work on their descriptions to clarify the distinctions between them: Servant Race and Henchmen Race. Of notability is that both tropes seem to have been launched from YKTTW with only a month or so between them, with one of them only having 10 responses on their YKTTW draft before launch.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#948: Nov 14th 2013 at 6:37:02 PM

Speculative Fiction:

What's up with the "Basic Ingredients" and "Tasty Recipes" way of organizing the index? Does that make any sense to anyone? Could we please replace it with something more descriptive and less eccentric?

FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#949: Nov 14th 2013 at 9:37:14 PM

Why? A lot of us like eccentric.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#950: Nov 15th 2013 at 12:59:18 AM

Speculative Fiction: Bizarre arrangement, but not a problem per se.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Total posts: 6,234
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