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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#876: Sep 2nd 2013 at 1:23:17 AM

The usage of Deliberate Values Dissonance looks good there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#877: Sep 10th 2013 at 9:40:02 AM

Red Shirt and Red Shirt Army both have long, complex descriptions that focus too much on the Trope Namer. Could we identify the core features of the trope and trim accordingly?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#878: Sep 10th 2013 at 9:41:54 AM

Red Shirt can get everything until and with the first parenthese cut, and the The Main Characters Do Everything needs to be moved down.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#879: Sep 10th 2013 at 9:56:59 AM

Worked on Redshirt: Moved the opening paragraph to Analysis.Redshirt, rearranged and rephrased some of the rest. How's it look now?

edited 10th Sep '13 9:57:42 AM by Madrugada

Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#880: Oct 9th 2013 at 5:26:04 AM

Redshirt looks good to me, although is the No Real Life Examples, Please! tag supposed to be visible?

No Sidepaths, No Exploration, No Freedom seems to be as much about complaining as about defining the trope, and the text is fairly unfocused, with the relevant points being spread all over the description. The examples section needs to be cleaned up as well, but that's for another thread. Although it should be possible to clean up the text, I'm wondering if the name isn't a bit too negative; would it be appropriate to run the trope through the TRS?

Also, any thoughts on my proposed Off-Model rewrite?

In animation, "staying on model" refers to the practice of making sure that drawings of the same object (typically a character) remain consistent with that object's template — its model sheet. This includes keeping the art style consistent, making sure colours match, avoiding drawing errors, and so on. An image that somehow fails to preserve this consistency is said to be "off model".

There are many reasons why this might happen. The drawing may be rushed, the budget might not allow too much attention to detail, the mistake might not have been caught, the animator might not have the skill to follow the template perfectly, or it might have been a conscious choice — although the term "off model" often implies sloppiness on the part of the animators, relaxed template standards can be used for surreal or humorous effect.

The concept of staying on model applies to almost every medium, of course — if the art is inconsistent in a work, it doesn't matter if it's a cartoon or not.

See also Uncanny Valley, when humans look strange to the audience. Contrast Animation Bump, which is when the quality of animation goes up drastically. Compare with Special Effects Failure, which is a similar concept in live action.

edited 9th Oct '13 5:28:35 AM by Whitecroc

Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#881: Oct 10th 2013 at 5:09:51 AM

I actually have an index description question instead of a trope description question. If there is a better place to take this, please let me know.

I'm trying to find the right balance between the various elements of Clear Concise And Witty on the Equine and Equestrian Tropes index description, in response to someone that keeps adding My Little Pony references. I'm also hoping to avoid what might be an Edit War.

Someone added the following line to the index description.

I thought this was absurd. We don't need to entirely duplicate the list of trope pages on one specific version of My Little Pony

I changed it to this:

That was then changed to

  • Not to be confused with tropes pertaining to equines of Equestria, though there is a bit of overlap.

I changed it back to my version, on the grounds that "No, there isn't really. This is not a My Little Pony page and we should not being spending a lot of emphasis on My Little Pony on this page."

So what do others think?

On the one hand, it is a mildly amusing punnish reference. On the other hand, I'm somewhat adverse to taking up almost half of an index description on what basically amounts to Entry Pimping a show that is by no means underrepresented on this website.

edited 10th Oct '13 5:12:17 AM by Catbert

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#882: Oct 10th 2013 at 7:49:55 AM

^^ A lot of NRLEP tropes still have the old visible wicks to the NRLEP page from before the noreallife tag was available. Absent a dedicated cleaning effort (not a casual act given sheer numbers, so having a reluctance to do so is understandable), zap them as you come across them.

[edit] Got Redshirts while the thought was fresh in my mind.

edited 10th Oct '13 7:53:12 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#883: Oct 10th 2013 at 7:56:08 AM

@Catbert: Is there any confusion going on about what these indexes are for? Without that, I do not see the use for these jokes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#884: Oct 10th 2013 at 9:28:22 PM

I frigging hate "not to be confused with [show that has some vague relation to the topic]" notices. Without exception, they feel fan-myopic to me. So I'd definitely be against the more excessive form.

Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#885: Oct 11th 2013 at 4:57:29 AM

I'm against them as well, although I prefer to evaluate them on a case-to-case basis. Once in a blue moon, there does crop up a case where confusion is likely.

Regardless, it's an index. I see no reason why there should be a disclaimer on it, as the index will, hopefully, not be seen by non-editors.

Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#887: Oct 12th 2013 at 2:33:05 AM

Yeah, there is no such functionality here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#888: Oct 12th 2013 at 6:04:29 AM

What I meant is that it will not typically be listed as a trope on a work page. Of course, my point might be moot since it will be at the bottom of the page... Never mind me. I just never saw any reason to spend more time than necessary on index pages.

Carry on.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#889: Oct 12th 2013 at 2:47:20 PM

Panthera Awesome has sixteen different paragraphs describing various cats. I guess that's interesting to some people or something but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm also not entirely sure what the trope is about unless it's just that cats are cool. That's kinda vague, you know?

But anyway, can we at least get rid of all those huge paragraphs?

edited 12th Oct '13 2:47:41 PM by Arha

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#890: Oct 12th 2013 at 3:00:15 PM

Christ,someone got a little carried away

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#891: Oct 12th 2013 at 3:03:30 PM

It's apparently been like that since 2010, judging by the edit history. Doesn't go back any further than that.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#892: Oct 12th 2013 at 9:42:43 PM

I'll chuck 'em in Analysis if you're insistent. The distinctions in implementation between the big cat breeds is relevant to understanding the trope.

edited 12th Oct '13 9:43:41 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#893: Oct 12th 2013 at 10:07:46 PM

I find it hard to understand anything about the trope, at least not if it's supposed to be more than Big Cats Are Cool.

edited 12th Oct '13 10:08:05 PM by nrjxll

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#894: Oct 13th 2013 at 4:03:08 AM

Panthera Awesome: To be frank: Chuck these subparagraphs to Analysis/ and replace them with "See Analysis.Panthera Awesome for ways this trope applies to specific cats."

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#896: Oct 19th 2013 at 1:55:20 PM

Standard Sci-Fi Fleet has a whole list of different types of ship above the trope itself,shouldn't they be moved to analysis?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#897: Oct 19th 2013 at 1:58:47 PM

The ships are kind of part of the trope.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#898: Oct 21st 2013 at 2:57:05 PM

Does Berserk Button really need to list over two dozen tropes on its main page description? Especially when we already have an Anger Tropes index?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#899: Oct 21st 2013 at 9:29:55 PM

No, I think subsituting most if not all of them for a mention of Anger Tropes would be in order.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#900: Oct 21st 2013 at 11:17:18 PM

Yeah, that description could easily be replaced with an Anger Tropes link.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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