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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#801: Jul 3rd 2013 at 9:04:39 AM

I'm going by what was already on the page. I didn't actually edit that part, I just included it for context.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#802: Jul 3rd 2013 at 9:06:58 AM

Well, Wikipedia corroborates it as the trope namer. So it can stay.

What I would do is write up Splatbook as we discussed, then note that "splat" is a derived term to refer to the individual classes, races, archetypes, etc. contained in a splatbook. No more elaboration is needed.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#803: Jul 6th 2013 at 7:56:15 AM

Here is a rough first draft of my proposed rewrite of Off-Model. I tried to boil it down to essentials, getting rid of much of the random discussion, the fairly unnecessary trivia, the implied whining about animation studios and what I felt was "undue weight" given to one particular animator. (Yes, I used a Wikipedia term there.)

I have no idea if my definition ("straying from templates") is accurate, or if the trope truly is about just those cases where animation errors occur due to budget problems, as per Laconic.Off Model. Also, I'm wondering if this isn't more of a Trivia or Useful Notes item — it doesn't strike me as very relevant to storytelling; as I recall, there are other tropes for that.

In animation, "staying on model" refers to the practice of making sure that drawings of the same object (typically a character) remain consistent with that object's template — its model sheet. This includes keeping the art style consistent, making sure colours match, avoiding drawing errors, and so on. An image that somehow fails to preserve this consistency is said to be "off model".

There are many reasons why this might happen. The drawing may be rushed, the budget might not allow too much attention to detail, the mistake might not have been caught, the animator might not have the skill to follow the template perfectly, or it might have been a conscious choice — although the term "off model" often implies sloppiness on the part of the animators, relaxed template standards can be used for surreal or humorous effect.

The concept of staying on model applies to almost every medium, of course — if the art is inconsistent in a work, it doesn't matter if it's a cartoon or not.

See also Uncanny Valley, when humans look strange to the audience. Contrast Animation Bump, which is when the quality of animation goes up drastically. Compare with Special Effects Failure, which is a similar concept in live action.

Lophotrochozoa Since: May, 2012
#804: Jul 9th 2013 at 3:36:26 PM

MacGuffin has a list of subtropes that was not addressed in the TRS thread. The list should be in Plot Coupon or Plot Device.

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#805: Jul 10th 2013 at 12:32:58 PM

[up][up] That description looks good to me.

captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#806: Jul 11th 2013 at 3:32:29 AM

Glass Eye needs a sentence that explains what it is. Is it a fake eye?

Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#807: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:17:27 AM

[up]

"Glass eye" seems to refer to a prosthetic meant to emulate the look of a normal eye in some way. It's a bit unclear what the scope of the trope is — is it meant to cover every use of the trope, or just cases where the audience gets clear, non-Informed Ability-esque cues?

MissKitten Luminescent Blush Since: Jul, 2012
#808: Jul 11th 2013 at 7:05:14 PM

Is The Pope a trope or a Useful Notes page?

edited 11th Jul '13 7:05:26 PM by MissKitten

lexicon Since: May, 2012
#809: Jul 12th 2013 at 12:35:39 AM

It's a Historical Domain Character and quite a few of them are listed under Useful Notes so it looks like that's what it is.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#810: Jul 13th 2013 at 8:39:10 PM

I've attempted to make Unhappy Medium's description clearer about what I think it is about (that is, "possessing Psychic Powers comes hand in hand with Blessed with Suck"). What do you think?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#811: Jul 18th 2013 at 7:24:02 AM

In the Blood makes itself out to be solely about "I'm evil, because I have an evil parent/ancestor", but in practice the trope seems to be applied just as often to the opposite situation. Should the description and laconic be rewritten to reflect that, or is this a TRS job?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#813: Jul 20th 2013 at 4:43:33 PM

Censor Steam starts out talking about how it's used in three different media that seems to date back to when we were still TV Tropes, then goes on a long rant about how this is used to sell anime DV Ds that seems mostly orthogonal to the trope, then near the end "oh, this happens in Western comic books too". The examples come from all the same media as most other tropes.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#814: Jul 21st 2013 at 10:26:39 AM

I wouldn't say the rant is "long", but I do think paragraphs 2, 3, 4 and 7 can be cut (completely zapped, not shuffled off to Analysis) without harming understanding of the trope. Why it's used on DVD releases is irrelevant to describing and understanding the trope.

edited 21st Jul '13 10:27:04 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from a place where folks put cream cheese on hot dogs (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#815: Jul 24th 2013 at 7:20:42 PM

The description for No OSHA Compliance seems to be a bit longer than it needs to be.

edited 24th Jul '13 7:21:14 PM by CompletelyNormalGuy

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Whitecroc Since: Dec, 2010
#816: Jul 26th 2013 at 3:31:18 AM

Only Idiots May Pass has a very whiny tone, and seems to be more about ranting at poor game design than actually defining a quirk in video games. I'm thinking it might even need to be hauled before the TRS; the current description seems insufficient to me.

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#818: Jul 29th 2013 at 2:23:01 AM

To heck with negativity - that's either overly specific or an overly generic name.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#819: Jul 29th 2013 at 2:25:13 AM

Overly specific seems to be the right term. I find it very dubious that it would be limited to fanfics.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#820: Jul 31st 2013 at 7:00:41 AM

False Utopia have this bit in the ways it can manifest:

  • You can find False Utopias by Fridge Horror. It is a place you used to find wonderful, until you had time to think it through, and realize that even if the place is meant to be a Utopia, it can still have too many ignored flaws to be a true one.

Fridge Horror is YMMV and False Utopia is not.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#823: Jul 31st 2013 at 12:31:30 PM

The Hedonist's current description implies that the character type is inherently too immature/childish to consider long-term benefits for themselves, let alone other people. That seems unnecessarily restrictive, don't you think?

edited 31st Jul '13 12:32:05 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#824: Jul 31st 2013 at 12:42:38 PM

That part of the description appears to be designed to explicitly contrast the trope with Ethical Hedonism, which would be useful if the latter were actually a trope. Face Palm.

I'm not sure what to do about it, though. The "childlike" part has been in the description for ages, and in fact most negatively-portrayed hedonists in media do fit that description. The ones who don't tend to have devolved into sadism and/or become jaded over the years, desiring ever greater stimulation to satisfy their cravings.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#825: Jul 31st 2013 at 6:53:12 PM

So a job for TRS, at least to determine if there really is a problem? Many heads thinking together are better than a few, after all; I think I've also saw a few examples in the Tabletop Games section that don't fit the childlike criterion nor are they inherently negatively-portrayed.

On another note, I'm not sure what Casual Kink is supposed to be about. "character casually mentions having an interest in BDSM/fetishism" seems very vague.

edited 31st Jul '13 6:54:19 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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