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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#5626: Sep 9th 2024 at 1:35:58 PM

It's not for any case of "a work references its earlier style", but specifically for things like a flashback (or a time-travel sequence, or similar) using the work's older style.

Gotcha, so none of those I mentioned would be valid examples, however something like this might?

From Sonic Frontiers:

Also, does the example you mentioned from the Simpsons, would that overlap with Retraux Flashback?

Edited by taotruths on Sep 9th 2024 at 1:37:36 AM

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5627: Sep 9th 2024 at 2:10:00 PM

[up]Those examples sound correct.

Also, now I have no idea what the difference is between this and Retraux Flashback. Hell, Retraux Flashback even potholes Stylistic Callback in the first sentence...

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#5629: Sep 10th 2024 at 5:56:32 PM

Not So Invincible After All has a weird disconnect where much of the descripton and the laconic state it's just about a character percieved to be invincible turns out to be vincible.

But then there's a note at the bottom that says its a Death Trope with the usual spoiler warning.

Only, most of the examples do not revolve around deaths (some of them, which I think should be cut, aren't even about characters believed to be invincible but just not defeated yet—like Ivan Drago who is obviously a mortal man who just happens to be really strong).

So should that note just be cut?

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#5630: Sep 10th 2024 at 5:59:23 PM

[up]I feel it should be cut if that's the case.

Coachpill Taxidermy (he/him) from Gen Z Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#5632: Sep 12th 2024 at 3:25:41 PM

This was brought to my attention regarding Fat Bastard regarding it's description,does anyone else feel that it should be clearer that it's a fictional stereotype much like any other trope?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5633: Sep 12th 2024 at 3:37:26 PM

[up]I was going to say "it already seems to be about as clear about its fictionality as any other trope"... then I got to the final paragraph.

Is it really necessary? It even says that obesity-induced changes to the limbic system aren't likely to make you any meaner, so why have it there in the first place? Quite frankly, that paragraph sounds like it's justifying fatphobia.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Sep 12th 2024 at 3:37:45 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#5634: Sep 12th 2024 at 3:57:13 PM

I've removed it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#5635: Sep 13th 2024 at 7:22:25 AM

For Remade for the Export, I would suggest a major rewrite and also cutting it down a lot:

When videogames are remade specifically to be localised and exported to countries that missed them at the time of release. The global marketplace for games has become much more accessible and connected, and the internet has made it possible for young gamers to discover obscure games made long before their time. It is also inevitable that if a recent instalment in a long running franchise reaches more markets than its predecessors, fans will want to know of what came before. Same effect when a crossover brings attention to an obscure game. This all creates incentives for publishers to re-release old games from the time when only a few lucky franchises crossed borders.

But what to do with games that are so old, the hardware to play them on is no longer in production? Some gamers will stick to second-hand consoles or emulators, but that hardly makes money for a company seeking to tap this new market. The solution is to remake the game, porting it to current consoles, sometimes updating some features and giving it a new subtitle.

A sub-trope of Video Game Remake. May be a result of Sequel First, Adaptation First or Marth Debuted in "Smash Bros." Almost always a case of Late Export for You. May be Bad Export for You if for some reason the port isn't as good as the original.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#5636: Sep 13th 2024 at 7:45:38 AM

[up]that looks pretty concise to me[tup]

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
Coachpill Taxidermy (he/him) from Gen Z Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5641: Sep 13th 2024 at 3:31:24 PM

Can I ask for feedback on my proposed change to Large Ham again? I just feel the description at present is a bit confused and repetitive, and I've tried to rectify that.

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#5642: Sep 13th 2024 at 4:35:08 PM

Looks pretty good to me. The page as written is way too long and wordy so it would be nice to trim it down a bit, for starters.

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5643: Sep 14th 2024 at 2:15:14 AM

I tried to trim it a bit, any further suggestions?


A ridiculously larger-than-life character full of charisma, energy and joie de vivre that can devastate a scene to a billion pieces and transform even the most humdrum moments into the most GRANDIOSE. Often played by a guest star with an IMDb listing longer than the rest of the cast put together, which can result in a One-Scene Wonder or a key redeeming element in shows that are So Bad, It's Good, especially as they have a tendency to be a bountiful source of memes and/or Narm Charm.

Large Hams usually lack an indoor voice, and greatly relish punctuating and emphasizing EVERYTHING. This will often be accompanied by dramatic gesticulation, and their introductory line can almost always be replaced with "Did somebody order A LARGE HAM?!" Note that a few moments of over-acting do not make a Large Ham, and the actor must be consistently portraying the character that way. Having an outrageous appearance is also helpful, but not a requirement. And while it is rare, one can be very hammy without raising one's voice at all: it's all about the emphasis in a character's speech and gestures.

It's based on the term "ham actor", meaning one who overacts, but where that term origininated is unclear: it's been suggested that it comes from the use of ham fat as a cheap make-up remover in the old days of theatre, or because "ham" serves as short for "amateur" (as in "ham radio"); Leslie Charteris stated it derived from "Hamlet" in a The Saint short story. Another possibility is the phrase refers to being "hamfisted", heavy-handed and not delicate or careful.

Please note, however, that a Large Ham is not necessarily a bad actor or ridiculous character. In fact it generally takes a good actor, or at least an experienced one, to pull this off successfully because it takes some skill to know how far is too far. Directors make an artistic choice to hire these actors because they are Large Hams, and that's what they want for a particular character — it's only bad writing when the hamminess makes no sense.

Popular implementations include: BRIAN BLESSED in Britain, William! Shatner! In! North! America!, and Norio Wakamoto in Japan. Many Large Hams in the past have some experience in stage acting and theater: when you have to act for the back rows, especially when coupled with music, it makes sense. While often male, actresses can pull it off, but it's rarer for them (due in no small part to the expectation that female characters will be more emotional anyways). One of the United Kingdom's most active export industries, yet ironically if a character is depicted as an American in a BBC series, he's likely to be one of these.

Often a character trait of the Badass Boasting Boisterous Bruiser, or any other Crazy Is Cool character. Deviled Hams enjoy getting Drunk on the Dark Side, Evil Laughter and screaming "FOOLS!" at the top of their lungs, with Card Carrying Villains, Mad Scientists and Smug Supers being particularly prone to this. If in a few scenes many Large Hams come together, the likely result is Ham-to-Ham Combat. For a recurring group of Hams who stick together, see The Ham Squad. If the entire setting is full of Hams, then you have a World of Ham.

Compare Camp, Comical Overreacting, Drama Queen, Hot-Blooded, Melodrama and Suddenly Shouting. Compare and contrast Bad "Bad Acting", which can involve poorly executed hamminess.

Contrast Danger Deadpan, The Stoic, Soft-Spoken Sadist and The Quiet One, though Cold Ham allows overlap.


Edited by Azorius24 on Sep 14th 2024 at 7:25:33 PM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Veanne Since: Jul, 2012
#5644: Sep 14th 2024 at 10:05:46 AM

Seems good, although I liked the "vitamin meme" joke. It was so... hammy. And shouldn't there be a new line just after the "bountiful source of memes"? Other than that - seems good.

Edited by Veanne on Sep 14th 2024 at 10:07:00 AM

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5645: Sep 14th 2024 at 10:12:07 AM

[up] There is a new line after that, for some reason the forum post won't display it properly. I can put the "vitamin meme" joke back in?

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#5646: Sep 14th 2024 at 11:23:39 AM

Dont bother. That sort of thing is the reason the description was so bloated in the first place. Large Ham may be a trope that lends itself to comedy quite often but we don't need to cram as many "jokes" into the description as possible.

That just gets in the way of explaining what the trope actually is.

Edited by ArthurEld on Sep 14th 2024 at 11:34:40 AM

Azorius24 Knight of Solace from the bonnie, bonnie banks o' Loch Lomond (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
Knight of Solace
#5647: Sep 14th 2024 at 11:25:01 AM

Alright. Changed back, but kept the mention of Narm Charm? Realised I forgot to carry that one over.

Edited by Azorius24 on Sep 14th 2024 at 7:34:29 PM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Malady (X-Troper)
#5648: Sep 15th 2024 at 6:45:44 AM

Apparently >< eyes are Wingding Eyes.

What do they mean, just a cheap way to show tightly shut eyes?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5649: Sep 15th 2024 at 8:35:14 AM

[up] According to https://www.visuallanguagelab.com/jvl, "Clenched eyes, happiness, pain, anger (depending on mouth)". Generally it's just cute.

Edited by Amonimus on Sep 15th 2024 at 6:37:35 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#5650: Sep 19th 2024 at 12:56:21 PM

Hairstyle Malfunction by the description implies that it's Always Female, but it's not necessarily so?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

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