Trope Description Improvement Drive

Depends on your findings from the wick check. If you find plenty of misuses or ZCEs, then you may wanna start a TRS thread for it, by adding it to the TRS Queue and waiting for your turn to open an OP. If it's mostly used correctly but there's some misuse here and there, then maybe a clean-up thread is enough without sending it to TRS.

I've removed the "types of speedruns" section from the Speedrun article per my discussion above.

Here are my next set of issues:

In modern speedrunning terminology, these three terms are called skips, routing, and execution. I could go into more detail on these.

This is slightly confusing and I think they've used the wrong trope here - I think where they said "Emergent Gameplay", they actually meant "Self-Imposed Challenge". However, it's a good point to raise - speedruns often do result in Emergent Gameplay, which is one of the most interesting things about them. If better-worded it would be a valid point to discuss.

Also speedrunners can and do speedrun racing games too (Trackmania, for example, has a highly active speedrunning community). The exact same principles apply - find the fastest way to beat the track by any means necessary (which isn't always the way intended by the game).

This sentence doesn't really say anything and is not really worth noting. All it really says is that you can't take advantage of glitches that don't exist, which is obviously true.

I disagree with that last point, I think that sentence is fine

The description for Accidental Truth for some reason thinks the trope is specifically about the accidental truth saving someone.

Edited by nw09 on Dec 30th 2022 at 6:01:08 AM

For what it's worth, I agree with the earlier comments criticizing the Amoral Attorney trope description for having way too much stuff about real-life, and went ahead and boldly edited it. Feel free to take a look and further edit it, but I tried to focus more on the aspects in fiction, and only occasionally talked about the real-life analogues. (Also dropped the odd part of the old description about Social Darwinism being an aspect... that certainly *can* be a trait of an amoral attorney, but I don't see it as super-required, or even notably common?)

I've done a wick check for Sandbox.Villain Has A Point Wick Check.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

It is about an accidental truth saving someone from revealing a lie they told just for it to be true all along unless you meant it focuses on the rescue part instead of the accidental truth itself?

Great! You may post it in the Wick Check Project thread and ask for feedback on it. I have a few questions myself after skimming your wick check, but this isn't the thread for this kinda discussion.

Why do you think it's noteworthy that some games don't have exploitable glitches? This information doesn't seem worth spending several lines to explain. I'm pretty sure the reader can deduce that, yes, if a game has no glitches you just have to play it really well.

Also, now that I'm looking at the sentence in context, it doesn't even follow from any previous point. Nothing in the article prior to this has mentioned glitch exploitation as something that speedrunners do, so this information comes out of nowhere and relates to nothing.

It looks like that sentence is where it is because the writer confused glitches with Sequence Breaking. Of course, games can have non-glitch ways to sequence break (just watch any top-level glitchless run of a Metroidvania). I would agree with cutting it.

I have some thoughts about the rest of the page but I should let you go first as you've been working on this for longer.

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On a separate note, Public Domain Character. Since the doom'n'gloom about PD having reached a maximum size and maybe even shrinking came to nothing, should those paragraphs be removed, or at least greatly condensed?

Edited by Vilui on Dec 31st 2022 at 7:54:11 PM

e: I was expecting it, so disregard.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 1st 2023 at 2:59:06 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

"Seemingly impossible crime" feels perfectly fine to me. Obviously the crime is possible because it happened, but it can still seem impossible to someone who can't explain how it was committed.

Yeah I don't see any problem with seemingly impossible crime

I think Female Misogynist needs its description changing. Most of it is bullet points of types, which is heavy discouraged nowadays. What would be the best way to do that?

TV Tropes ruined Faust's life

I think an argument can be made that the bulleted list should be moved to Analysis.Female Misogynist and the on page description should be condensed to a broader summary of the concept

Edited by amathieu13 on Jan 2nd 2023 at 1:14:15 PM

That would work, and people can add to it as society changes.

TV Tropes ruined Faust's life

How does this sound as a new description for Female Misogynist?

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A female character who hates women and views them as inferior, either to men or to herself. The nature of this misogyny depends on the woman's identity, upbringing, religion, and culture.

Subtrope of Boomerang Bigot. In the rare case that she also applies the misogyny to herself as well (through self-hatred and/or needless self-imposed limitations) it also becomes Internalized Categorism. Compare/contrast with Effeminate Misogynistic Guy, except that the contradiction is much more direct. See also Territorial Smurfette, where the female lead will act antagonistic towards a new woman in the group. Contrast Does Not Like Men.

Sadly, this is sometimes Truth in Television, but that's all we're going to say about the subject.

TV Tropes ruined Faust's life

Troper amathieu13 already removed the type labels while still keeping the bullet points which imo is okay to have. A trope may have bullets/categories but not numbers and type labels.

Your proposal is too short while the current description is too long. I prefer something in the middle, not too long or too brief.

I'd probably keep some light descriptions of the variations. Something like:

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A female character who hates women and views them as inferior, either to men or to herself. This archetype has several variations depending on what it is she finds so detestable about her own sex and how that hatred manifests.

Some are traditionalists and religious fundamentalists who favor strict gender roles and hate any woman who dares to exist outside of them. Others are Straw Feminists who Slut Shame any women who doesn't adhere to her strict moral standards around sex and sexual expression. Some female characters' antagonism towards women only really shows up when in male-dominated spaces, where they put down other women who are openly more feminine or don't share the same interests as the group to validate their own position within it as Not Like Other Girls. And then there are those who don't mind women, so long as they are the "right" kind of woman, i.e. of the same race/ethnic group, class, sexual orientation, gender identity, and cultural background as her. Any woman who falls outside of this box is considered doing womanhood wrong and can be accused of being a Category Traitor.

For more details on the variations, see the Analysis page.

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...and then the final paragraph from the original description can be added.

That said, I'd wait to see what others think about moving the majority of the description over to the analysis page before making any changes

Edited by amathieu13 on Jan 2nd 2023 at 4:06:24 AM

I would definitely favor moving the detailed descriptions to the Analysis page over a complete cut of them.

That looks good to me.

TV Tropes ruined Faust's life

With regards to Tropical Island Adventure, yes I'm aware the exoticism is the point, I was just taking issue with how the wording seems to imply that these places being "less civilized" isn't just how the trope portrays it but an undisputed fact that inspired the trope.

Comically Missing the Point contains the phrase "For the fandom equivalent, see Misaimed Fandom."

This was added in 2014 and seems to be based on the old complainy misuse from when it was called Completely Missing The Point (even though this was three years post-rename). Should we remove it?

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

It does come off as complaining to me too, plus they come off as unrelated to me. So, I agree with cutting it.

Cut right away. A fandom can't be comically missing the point of something.

Per last year's ATT I've forgot about.

I've added some examples to Sandbox.Caps Lock and also an extra paragraph for tropeworthiness. Would it be fine to to move to Caps Lock and mirror to SelfDemonstrating.Caps Lock? Also does the Self-Demonstrating page need the example list?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup