TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Trope Description Improvement Drive

Go To

What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#4426: Nov 13th 2022 at 10:53:06 AM

Lovable Sex Maniac has a classic problem where the description is narrower than many of the examples, and honestly rather muddled.

Dirty Old Man refers to it as an anime variant, but there are plenty of other examples. I would change it to "If the dirty old man remains sympathetic and doesn't take his perversions too far, he can be a Lovable Sex Maniac."

More importantly, its own description assumes the character behaves in ways that would be not just inappropriate but actually illegal in the real world. Yet there are also examples who do not harass or intrude on unwilling victims and mostly just talk about their sex habits and favourite erotica with no shame. (I've seen this especially on our Vtuber pages, mostly for female streamers; male streamers tend to be given All Men Are Perverts as a character trope, which is another, separate problem.)

Should the description be rewritten to acknowledge that examples can range from "doesn't hide their pornography" to "gropes every woman he sees"? Or should these examples be removed for not fitting? There may be two tropes here, one about sexual harassment being treated lightly by the narrative and another than might be called Shameless Pornography Enthusiast.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#4427: Nov 13th 2022 at 10:55:52 AM

[up] The vtuber ones are generally violations of Real Life Troping anyway, barring some rare exceptions like Houshou Marine.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#4428: Nov 14th 2022 at 10:13:54 AM

The description for Even the Rats Won't Touch It makes it ambiguous as to whether the page image actually demonstrates the trope. Maybe slightly amending the descriptions to list some reasons why the vermin would avoid the food (tastes bad, poisonous, etc.) would fix that?

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#4429: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:34:39 AM

Hm, that indicates "so bad it kills the vermin" which I suppose is within the spirit of the trope but not mentioned anywhere in the text.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#4430: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:37:51 AM

[up] I brought that exact issue up in Image Pickin', but they're opting to keep it regardless, which is why I came here.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Nov 14th 2022 at 1:38:03 PM

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#4431: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:40:19 AM

sounds like a case for a usage check to see if the trope can be expanded in TRS.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#4432: Nov 14th 2022 at 11:45:08 AM

The only on-page example like that that I've seen is the Freefall example that is the page image, and a cursory look at a few wicks aren't turning up anything like that, either. I don't really have the time to do a wick check right now, unfortunately.

ShootingStar7X Is semi-retired! Since: Dec, 2017
Is semi-retired!
#4433: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:37:09 PM

Has anyone else realized The Sociopath's description is kind of...colossal? I put the traits of The Sociopath into a folder, and it's still a huge description.

(What's worse is a commented moderator notice on top of the page source mentions the description was "cut down from its former atrocious Wall Of Text length". If it's this long now, I don't want to know what it was like before!)

I feel this description is contributing to misuse of the trope. I've seen entries describing only a few of the five traits a character displays when "it's the combination of them all that creates the true Sociopath"; or entries interchangeable with a single individual trait (Lack of Empathy, The Unfettered, etc.) or even Sadist — which, to my knowledge, The Sociopath is incompatible with. It's easy to imagine the average troper being unwilling to read a description this long.

Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#4434: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:44:26 PM

My goodness, it's huge!

Valdo
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#4435: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:46:08 PM

That note has been there since 2012. Pretty sure that people just added more afterward.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#4436: Nov 14th 2022 at 4:11:21 PM

Yeah. It now appears to be about 3x the size of the worst version on teh wayback machine in feb/march of 2012, before that cutdown happened.

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Nov 14th 2022 at 6:11:44 AM

ShootingStar7X Is semi-retired! Since: Dec, 2017
Is semi-retired!
#4437: Nov 14th 2022 at 5:41:46 PM

[up]Yikes.

So, how should we go about trimming this description?

Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#4438: Nov 14th 2022 at 7:01:04 PM

I think we can turn the trait folder into a simple bullet list.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 14th 2022 at 9:33:11 AM

Valdo
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#4439: Nov 14th 2022 at 7:16:34 PM

I was going to suggest maybe splitting some of this into an analysis page but looks like there's already one and it's just as lengthy as the main page

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4440: Nov 15th 2022 at 1:06:49 AM

Re: The Sociopath: Yeah, that one's way overlong. And I see that Fighteer already cut it back down a decade or so ago, put a mod note asking that it not be overexpanded again, and yet it's back to the giant size. By multiple tropers no less.

My preference is to revert it back to this version [with appropriate link cleaning]. And lock it afterwards, since examples are on subpages and people clearly cannot follow written instructions.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
ShootingStar7X Is semi-retired! Since: Dec, 2017
Is semi-retired!
#4442: Nov 15th 2022 at 10:37:48 AM

[up][up]Agreed.

Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4445: Nov 15th 2022 at 11:03:27 AM

Done.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Malady (X-Troper)
#4446: Nov 15th 2022 at 12:43:34 PM

Meat Puppet says that Living Bodysuit is for spy / disguise reasons only, but I'm not seeing it in the latter's description? Anyone seeing it?

Edited by Malady on Nov 15th 2022 at 12:43:43 PM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Hello83433 (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#4447: Nov 16th 2022 at 3:57:34 PM

[up] No I don't see it. The description even says "usually" followed by a few exceptions. Maybe just add "usually" to the description on Meat Puppet? I was thinking about maybe putting that LBs are under the hijaker's control as a solution, but looking at the others, it appears to also apply to Big Dumb Body.


Should it be made clear that, as a subtrope of Foil, Evil Counterpart also has the requirement that the characters interact? The trope already discusses at length the importance of the EC being either a foil or Mirror Character to (usually) the protagonist, that it's all but explicitly stated.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Malady (X-Troper)
#4448: Nov 16th 2022 at 4:01:37 PM

[up] - Body and Host also lists Living Bodysuit as "Host Body used for Spying". And if it's not for that, what differentiates it from Meat Puppet or a regular host?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Hello83433 (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#4449: Nov 16th 2022 at 5:52:32 PM

[up] Then I wonder if we should take it the other way and restrict Living Bodysuit the way that its laconics do. Otherwise, I believe your right that there isn't much difference between that and Meat Puppet.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#4450: Nov 16th 2022 at 6:33:49 PM

That's not something we can do. If the laconic doesn't match, the laconic is wrong. Narrowing the trope would require TRS.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

Total posts: 6,230
Top