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Trope Description Improvement Drive

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What it says in the title. EDIT: Link to auxiliary sandbox page

Some trope descriptions suffer from problems. Some possible ones:

  1. Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!. A paragraph starts explaining element X of the trope, then it wanders off to explain element Y. Two paragraphs after that we're back at element X again. Nary a conjunction is in sight.
  2. Too long. Stuff that should go in analysis, or maybe in another trope, or maybe nowhere, going in the main space. Too much scrolling required before you can get to the examples.
  3. Fan Myopia. Some "this is how it happens in WRESTLING!" dissertation is taking up half of the page on a trope about white t-shirts. We already have a thread on that one - discussion about the general phenomenon goes there, specific candidates to deal with go here.
  4. General lack of balance and order. Something is emphasized at the expense of the other aspects of the trope, even though it has no right to be. Consequences of the trope come first, then related tropes, then a mention of the Trope Codifier, then common scenarios where it comes into play...
  5. Failure to answer the fundamental question up front: What is this trope? Not what it "might" be or what can "possibly" happen - what is it?
  6. Not enough meat. Juicy stuff is missing, like: When is the trope likely to turn up? Why would an author use it? In what ways does the audience often react? Which tropes are related to it and how?
  7. Spelling and grammar issues.
  8. The first line which makes honest-to-god sense is below the fold. e.g. Example as a Thesis that makes you go "huh?" instead of "ooooh".
  9. Bad Writing. Purple Prose, pitching the trope, Wanton Cruelty to the Common Comma.
  10. Egregiously Fan-Myopic quote.
  11. Jaywalking.

Bring up trope pages here so we can work on them. If no one does in a while, I'll try to dig something up.

edited 22nd Sep '11 10:48:59 AM by TripleElation

Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#276: Feb 27th 2012 at 3:41:07 PM

This is already in TRS, but the thread is going nowhere. The Fun with Subtitles page does not describe the trope in question, instead focusing on being a self demonstrating article

My troper wall
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#277: Feb 28th 2012 at 4:20:37 PM

[up]That... sucks. I was expecting a mess, but at least a mess with some original jokes, not ones stolen from Monty Python And The Holy Grail.

Single-Issue Psychology is tiny. Sure, I can see that we don't want a multi-paragraph essay about "this isn't how it works in real life", but the current description is just over one line.

edited 28th Feb '12 4:24:37 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#278: Feb 29th 2012 at 3:48:31 PM

The Love Slap Of Epiphany has the worst case of Example as a Thesis I've seen in a good while.

Dear lord. I half expected the thing to end with "to start atoning, turn to page 3". I can't even find a proper trope definition somewhere in there to rescue.

edited 29th Feb '12 3:49:02 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from a place where folks put cream cheese on hot dogs (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#279: Mar 4th 2012 at 7:59:41 PM

[up][up]I rewrote it. You might want to check and make sure that it's actually better.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#280: Mar 5th 2012 at 4:39:14 AM

That's a big improvement!

I'll have a go at improving Fun with Subtitles as soon as I have time.

EDIT: Have done, though the resulting description is now very bare-bones. If anyone feels like adding to it, by all means do. I also realised that it had a TRS thread here. (I guess I could have used ccoa's proposed description, but I feel iffy about just taking someone else's work.)

edited 5th Mar '12 1:35:59 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#281: Mar 6th 2012 at 1:35:01 PM

Emotionally Tongue-Tied could really use some filling out. It reads like a laconic.

Also, even if this weren't a wiki, I'd be honored if you used my stuff in the description if you think it works. :)

edited 6th Mar '12 1:46:46 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from a place where folks put cream cheese on hot dogs (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#282: Mar 6th 2012 at 6:10:30 PM

[up]I gave it a shot. Hopefully the new description actually works.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#283: Mar 8th 2012 at 3:43:06 AM

The description for Soft Glass needs a chainsaw.

CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from a place where folks put cream cheese on hot dogs (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#284: Mar 8th 2012 at 1:59:51 PM

Wow, that read like a boring English paper. It's shorter now.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#285: Mar 9th 2012 at 8:50:01 AM

The Hero is in dire need of trimming and clarification. I can't tell what the trope is supposed to be, beyond that the character is sometimes but not always one of the following: The Leader, The Protagonist, both, or even none of the them. It also needs clarification on what separates it from the Ideal Hero trope.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#286: Mar 9th 2012 at 8:52:58 AM

Why does that have examples? I recall seeing it during 2011 and it didn't have examples, because it's omnipresent.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#287: Mar 9th 2012 at 8:59:15 AM

[up][up] It's the supertrope to the Ideal Hero. It's one of the highest level supertropes we have. That's why it's so damn broad. There's nothing above it. No, we aren't going to narrow it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#288: Mar 9th 2012 at 9:03:04 AM

I was asking for clarification and trimming down confusing parts, not narrowing down the definition. The Hero's own description clashes with how Five-Man Band describes it as The Leader of the team, as The Hero isn't always The Leader, and additionally isn't always The Protagonist; the description fails to specify what The Hero is if s/he's neither of those two.

And speaking of Ideal Hero, from its own description:

While The Hero is often an Ideal Hero, the former is the role a character occupies in a group while the latter is a character personality.
So what is the role of The Hero?

edited 9th Mar '12 9:05:39 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#289: Mar 9th 2012 at 9:27:46 AM

Five-Man Band describes the Hero as the role occurs in that trope. The hero is broader than it's role in FMB though. A hero doesn't need a team. A hero can be out there on their own. At it's core "A hero does what must be done to save what can be saved."

The Hero's biggest issues are that someone tried to put in references to too many other tropes and tried to make it too much about their role in the five man band when the trope exists outside of that.

edited 9th Mar '12 9:29:19 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#290: Mar 9th 2012 at 9:35:56 AM

Then what's stopping us (or rather the mods, for obvious reasons) from switching out The Hero in Five-Man Band with The Leader, since the latter is what the FMB role is about?

Then it's clear that the article needs trimming down of the excessive/superfluous/definition-confusing portions.

At it's core "A hero does what must be done to save what can be saved."
Wait, then what if we have a whole group of heroes working together? Is each of them also The Hero, or what?

Man, this trope needs a TRS all its own! >_<

edited 9th Mar '12 9:38:40 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#291: Mar 9th 2012 at 9:39:27 AM

It really does.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DiamondWeapon Since: Jan, 2001
#292: Mar 11th 2012 at 7:28:51 AM

The description of Kinetic Weapons Are Just Better is way too long and stuck on self-justification. Everything after the second paragraph is gushing about how "realistic" the trope is or otherwise ranting about the eternal superiority of projectiles in real life, eventually devolving into weird Techno Babble comparing the physics of made-up weapons as if any of it mattered.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#293: Mar 11th 2012 at 10:26:31 AM

How much can be shunted to the Analysis subpage?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#294: Mar 11th 2012 at 10:31:24 AM

I took much of Kinetic Weapons Are Just Better to Analysis. I left only those part pertaining to the trope and its media usage in - we aren't learning for a physics lesson here anyway.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#295: Mar 11th 2012 at 5:17:32 PM

But physics is awesome! [/silly]

Fight smart, not fair.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#296: Mar 17th 2012 at 7:41:09 AM

Halloween Special barely has a description.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#298: Mar 18th 2012 at 7:09:58 PM

I took a chainsaw to the description of Hope Spot, moving paragraphs of analysis to the Analysis page. Could someone make sure I wasn't overzealous, please?

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#299: Mar 18th 2012 at 8:01:17 PM

Overall, looks good. I'd delete "However, if handled poorly, as it can also detract from a story. " since it's essentially "when Done Badly, this is Done Badly". Being edited though.

Fight smart, not fair.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#300: Mar 23rd 2012 at 5:05:19 PM

Andy Kaufman page needs its description improved.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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