Nah, because they're supposed to be where the incident happened, if I recall correctly.
One of the points of the memorials is to tell people to drive safer, I think...
I am now known as Flyboy.Then some secular signs informing people to not drink and drive might be the right response.
For what it's worth, I would be ok with that type of monument if people didn't act like jerks about these things all the time. As it is, I chalk it up to "This is why we can't have nice things"
edited 17th Sep '11 1:18:58 PM by Karmakin
Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserveI don't think "and this is why we can't have nice things" is a justification to make them take the signs down.
AA is going the entirely wrong way about this. What they need to do is make their own memorial, and then they have to avoid editorializing it. Not "some State Troopers are atheists too," and not "atheists are compassionate too!" Pretentious self-righteousness is still annoying, no matter who does it. Just make a simple memorial, and then if Utah challenges it, we bring it to the Supreme Court to shoot them down.
That is what they have to do to win.
I am now known as Flyboy.Again, if AA made their own memorial, they would be shot down. Now, making it explicitly for the purpose of being shot down may very well be the strategic thing to do.
And to be equivalent, the memorial would have to identify the troopers as atheist, in the way that crosses identify troopers as Christian.
And I would contend that the crosses don't "identify" the troopers as anything, regardless of the intentions of the Church.
The crosses are the Church's way of saying "we believe these people are in heaven; if you believe too, pray for them." It doesn't necessarily speak to what the troopers believed.
Frankly, though, the atheists don't have a symbol to use, really. It would be a fantastic display if they did use the American flag, though, as Joyflower said...
I am now known as Flyboy.The ideal situation is a church run by the state. Since this isn't likely to happen in the US anytime soon, the government should seek to keep religion out of important state affairs. Minor things, like Christmas, crosses in public places, and religious displays are a cultural factor, and should be left alone.
I am not sure that is an "ideal" dude, I mean it might work okay for the Co E but you have to remember cultural differences and problems there.
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Ideal for the country, I mean. When religion is kept in check and directed towards government interest, it tends to do less damage than when it supercedes the well-being of the nation and influences its policies for its own end. The US isn't as extreme as that, but it's showing tendencies toward this, most notably in the Christian right (which has faded somewhat in importance in recent years: no reason it can't make a comeback, though).
edited 17th Sep '11 2:52:03 PM by tropetown
Now even then I would disagree. Religions should probably not work activly AGAINST the government, but in any truly democratic government with a state controlled religion you'd end up having a very schitzophrenic God
. "This year support the Lord by donating to Charity", "This year support the Lord by investing in Adidas stock!".
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, maybe American Atheists are picking their battles—they're picking this one while it's small, rather than letting it slide and maybe running the risk of it getting much larger? It wouldn't be the first time someone gave a fundie Christian mouse a cookie, after all, and then before you know it you're getting a 'clerical collar tax' deducted out of every paycheck.
The bottom line is, crosses IDENTIFY it as a religious symbol, even if crosses are used to denote the dead elsewhere. A "plain" tombstone for instance doesn't designate it as being a NON-religious symbol, meaning that you can't really get a true flip-side without saying "Oh hey, we're atheists," which you've already said "Oh that'd be obnoxious."
Like I said, religion should be kept out of important decisions. However, things like crosses are a mark of American culture, and shouldn't be discouraged. Unless, of course, it's a personal decision, and people have a choice in the matter; then by all means, you can choose different.
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Yes, to that. Pro-atheist doesn't have to mean anti-Christian.
edited 17th Sep '11 7:15:07 PM by tropetown

Bitches be crazy.