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Revert to old definition : Hourglass Hottie

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Sep 13th 2011 at 5:57:42 PM

This trope dealt exclusively with females that had hourglass figures with unrealistic proportions. Currently the definition has expanded to include with with hourglass figures that would be rare in real life. Two problems.

1) the idea to expand this trope definition came from a TRS thread where there was no consensus to expand the definition.

2) This is a graphical trope, least from my understanding of Graphical Tropes they're only achievable in animated works, drawn or graphical rendered works. Including characters with hourglass figure that would be rare in real life, isn't excluding real life women.

Now considering that just about all of the examples on this page and the usage on the wicks already fit under the tropes older definition for unrealistic hourglass figures, all that would need to be done is a couple of edits on the trope description.

edited 13th Sep '11 6:02:51 PM by captainpat

Sep 13th 2011 at 6:02:45 PM

Looks like a reasonable plan to me.

edited 13th Sep '11 6:02:58 PM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Sep 13th 2011 at 6:49:20 PM

I've always been for keeping this narrowed to impossible figures. The widening was mostly from people who wanted to just list women they found hot.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Sep 13th 2011 at 6:50:34 PM

Which is plenty of reason right there to back out the change.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 13th 2011 at 6:53:56 PM

I agree. Return to the original definition: impossibly hourglass figures.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Sep 13th 2011 at 7:06:04 PM

I thought it was currently impossibly hourglass figures.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Sep 13th 2011 at 7:07:21 PM

Someone added a bold note insisting that it could be "very rare IRL". It needs to be deleted.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Sep 13th 2011 at 7:29:30 PM

[up][up] I wouldn't blame you since all the examples are basically that.

Alright, I've reverted the definition back to impossible hourglass figures.

Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sep 13th 2011 at 8:11:26 PM

Wick check and misuse removal and we're done

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Sep 14th 2011 at 10:33:39 AM

My only problem with the current decision is that the title in no way indicates the "impossible" part of the definition, and thus both risks Trope Decay and can act as a deterrent to future attempts to create an actual "female character is considered hot in-universe because she has a "perfect" (from an in-universe POV) hourglass figure".

I mean, there's a reason Impossibly Cool Clothes was not named Cool Clothes.

edited 14th Sep '11 10:34:48 AM by MarqFJA

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
Sep 14th 2011 at 10:59:34 AM

[up] If the title is a problem, I have no issue renaming it. Now, as far as "female character is considered hot in-universe because she has a "perfect" (from an in-universe POV) hourglass figure", I can't I've seen a works where that actually happens.

MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Sep 14th 2011 at 11:03:56 AM

Don't worry yourself. Just leave the examples for YKTTW. Now, does anyone else have arguments against renaming the trope to Impossibly Hourglass Hottie, or something similar?

edited 14th Sep '11 11:04:18 AM by MarqFJA

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
Gillespie Talkative Loon from Western Canada
Sep 14th 2011 at 11:31:28 AM

How about Impossibly Narrow Waist? That seems to be the defining factor here. Narrow waist + wide hips = Hartman Hips entry, narrow waist + large breasts = a few of our breast entries (Most Common Superpower etc), so I guess a combination of both to an impossible extreme?

Personally, I find this trope slightly redundant anyway unless we focus on the impossibility of 10-inch waists. I'd agree with taking the word "Hottie" off the title, it's just misleading.

[The rest was unintelligible.]
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Sep 14th 2011 at 11:34:03 AM

You can't have this trope with just a narrow waist though. If they have an impossibly narrow waist, a flat chest, and no hips, it's not this trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Sep 14th 2011 at 12:03:07 PM

[up][up]

As shima point out a narrow waist is just one part of this trope. The point of this trope is that a character has a waist that is exaggeratedly small in comparison to her hips and bustline. As for the "hottie" part in the title, it's mainly because character that fit under this trope are always either a Hello, Nurse!, Ms. Fanservice, or potrayed in a attractive manner.

unhappyyak :( from Minneapolis
:(
Sep 14th 2011 at 12:03:23 PM

Did a quick, informal wick check.

Out of 30 checked:

  • 14 works pages
  • 10 character pages/fetish fuel station attendant
  • 2 index pages
  • 3 trope descriptions
  • 1 unknown (couldn't find it)

The works and character/FFSA pages all appeared to be animated or video games, but this trope encourages X Just X type examples and I wasn't familiar with many of them. I didn't see any blatant misuse.

Edit: Curves in All the Right Places and Wonder Woman uses are a bit weak.

edited 14th Sep '11 12:04:36 PM by unhappyyak

First key to interpreting a work: Things mean things.
Sep 14th 2011 at 12:06:39 PM

[up] Curves in All the Right Places - is definitely a misuse Wonder Woman- I'd remove if there's no specific artist being named.

Sep 15th 2011 at 3:06:47 AM

The Cool Clothes analogy is a good one. We shouldn't claim that a "hourglass hottie" could not possibly exist in real life: that's just inviting confusion, annoyment and misuse. Maybe Animated Hourglass Hottie?

In either case, the description need improvement. Lets revise.


Current version

A somewhat common bodytype of a Ms. Fanservice and/or Hello, Nurse! exclusive to animated and illustrated works.

An hourglass figure is a normal but rather rare body shape for women to possess in Real Life. In the world of animated or drawn fiction, not so much. An hourglass figure tends to be the standard bodyshape of most animated or drawn women, especially if a work is trying to potray said character as attractive or desirable. What makes an Hourglass Hottie different from other female characters with hourglass figures is the emphasis her character design places on her Hourglass figure. Hourglass Hottie has a hourglass figure with proportions that would be anatomically impossible in real life with out the use of a corset.

No Real Life Examples Please.

My suggestion for new description

An animated woman doesn't have ribs like a real actress does. Thus she can easily have a far narrower waist than would be possible with even the strictest of corsets - and usually without even wearing one!

An Animated Hourglass Hottie has generous curves, with an impossibly narrow waist as an unproblematic part of how she just happens to look. She's always designed to be attractive, even in the cases where she's not Ms. Fanservice or Hello, Nurse!.

No Real Life Examples Please.

Sep 15th 2011 at 4:47:33 AM

[up] I Really like where that description is going. It's short and to the point. Though I would insert "hourglass figure" somewhere to make sure people are a aware of what were, though perhaps the title is enough (Can't be too careful, though).

Sep 15th 2011 at 4:57:39 AM

You mean the risk that people will misinterpret is as flat-chested characters being examples? Hmm, I think the "generous curves" statement is enough to prevent that. And hourglass figure is already referred to in the title. Then again, maybe wouldn't hurt to spell it out and to make a comparison. How about...

My suggestion for new description, v2

An animated woman doesn't have ribs like a real actress does. Thus she can easily have a far narrower waist than would be possible with even the strictest of corsets - and usually without even wearing one!

An Animated Hourglass Hottie has generous curves, with an impossibly narrow waist as an unproblematic part of how she just happens to look. Thus taking the classic "hourglass figure" beauty ideal Up to Eleven. She's always designed to be attractive, even in the cases where she's not Ms. Fanservice or Hello, Nurse!.

No Real Life Examples Please.


Edit: Replaced Beyond the Impossible with Up to Eleven.

edited 15th Sep '11 7:07:08 AM by Xzenu

Sep 15th 2011 at 5:45:11 AM

[up] I support that revision.

Sep 15th 2011 at 5:48:26 AM

As for title...

  • Impossibly Hourglass Hottie: Bad grammar, bad snowclone
  • Impossibly Hourglass Figure: Missing the hotness aspect of the trope
  • Impossible Hourglass Hottie: Impossible in what way?
  • Animated Hourglass Hottie: To the point. Only possible problem is that while it's easy to read it as a hourglass hottie who is animated, it can also be read as an animated hourglass that is a hottie. However, in this the hottie requirement still shield it from the hypothetical misuse that someone would add a character who is an actual animated hourglass.

peccantis the flies will find you Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
Sep 15th 2011 at 6:54:44 AM

[up][up][up] My support, but it's better to use Up to Eleven than Beyond the Impossible, as BTI is currently being TR Sd and it seems it'll be redefined as "beyond the literal impossible". In that light, BTI of hourglass figure would be something like "her waist disappears into a 0-dimensional singularity" or something.

edited 15th Sep '11 6:55:47 AM by peccantis

before the darkness arrives
MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Sep 15th 2011 at 8:22:53 AM

Impossibly Hourglass Hottie is grammatically correct, as "hourglass" can be used as an adjective. Otherwise, the phrase "hourglass figure" would also be grammatically incorrect.

edited 15th Sep '11 8:24:02 AM by MarqFJA

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Sep 15th 2011 at 1:38:38 PM

[up] Being used as an adjective of sorts (compound noun would be closer to the mark, I think) does not mean it takes any old adverb as a modifier. A "rope ladder" is a ladder made of rope, but you can't say "impossibly rope ladder". Even if that vaguely made sense, "impossibly" doesn't bind to "rope", because "rope" is still a noun, even if it's acting like an adjective. Note that "hempen ladder" (where "hempen" is an adjective meaning "made of hemp") can become "impossibly hempen ladder", which may not make much sense logically, but is perfectly grammatical, but "impossibly rope ladder" is neither logical nor grammatical.

This case is, perhaps, a little more borderline, but my instinct is that "impossibly hourglass figure" is indeed ungrammatical. At best, it's extremely awkward.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

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