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Better solution?: Kuudere

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Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#151: Sep 6th 2011 at 7:19:10 PM

It really is.

Edit:: of course I would be page topper

edited 6th Sep '11 7:24:34 PM by Acebrock

My troper wall
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#152: Sep 6th 2011 at 7:25:30 PM

If you ask me, it's a sign that people who insist Kuudere is an amazing title want to claim everything else is terrible.

Aldheim Since: Sep, 2010
#153: Sep 6th 2011 at 7:39:59 PM

[up] Which might be a valid theory, if people who had expressed disappointment (myself included) hadn't been proposing alternatives and, presumably, at least voting in favor of their own.

edited 6th Sep '11 7:40:43 PM by Aldheim

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#154: Sep 6th 2011 at 7:58:29 PM

Quite possibly, but I do not feel that you speak for everyone that is very against the rename. I may have overstated my opinion, however.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#155: Sep 6th 2011 at 8:11:09 PM

Maybe we should start implementing a system that mandates attaching one's reason(s) for their particular vote(s) (which would be also tracked by troper handle), so that we could easily determine which voters are considering the crowner seriously and which ones are just being blindly stubborn (i.e. "If I can't have the old title, then I'll downvote every proposed alternative in the hopes that enough like-minded voters do the same, such that none of the proposals pass!").

edited 6th Sep '11 8:12:24 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Aldheim Since: Sep, 2010
#156: Sep 6th 2011 at 8:16:03 PM

That seems a little undemocratic to me. Anyway, that's probably a discussion for Wiki Talk, not this thread.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#157: Sep 6th 2011 at 8:17:05 PM

A more practical idea would probably be to track votes. If someone is only voting down all options, that's pretty suspicious in itself.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#158: Sep 6th 2011 at 8:21:14 PM

Why? All that means is that they don't like any of them. We are not going to get into deciding whether people have legitimate reasons for voting the way they do, believe me.

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#159: Sep 6th 2011 at 10:10:09 PM

Frozen Flower seems to me to be the best option.

It's already a redirect.

It's referenced in the description (flowers underneath snow).

It's a rather poetic name describing an image that evokes the emotional nuances of the trope without being overly specific.

It's very similar to Broken Bird (which in fact is what it was patterned after).

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#160: Sep 6th 2011 at 10:15:46 PM

Yeah, I'm changing my vote to up. Yes, flowers that are frozen have loads of symbolism associated with them, but since we don't have a page for that and no one seems interested in making one, it works here.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#161: Sep 6th 2011 at 10:53:58 PM

Votes are getting weird.

0 (yeas:11 nays:13)

That doesn't add up, does it?

My troper wall
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#162: Sep 6th 2011 at 11:04:39 PM

Not the first time it's been noticed.

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#163: Sep 7th 2011 at 1:15:54 AM

Frozen Flower makes me think Visual trope/ Faux Symbolism

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
LordGriffin Since: Sep, 2010
#164: Sep 7th 2011 at 3:03:14 AM

I know that we need a solution, but I feel the need to speak against the current topper. It doesn't work nearly as well as a "name". It's a decent description, but it can't really be used in a sentence the same way as kuudere or Frozen Flower can. It's difficult to refer to a character as "Cold Outside Sweet Inside" in causal troping.

Raven is a kuudere. Raven is a Frozen Flower. Raven is Cold Outside Sweet Inside. At that point, it's not a catchy name at all. It's just a generic description that you don't need a pothole to say. It lacks any creative punch whatsoever. There's no life in it. There's no fun. It's an emotionally dead name.

Aldheim Since: Sep, 2010
#165: Sep 7th 2011 at 3:12:31 AM

Hey, I came up with the name, and I largely agree with you. But it's as simple and clear a description of the trope as I think can be formulated. If I had my way, we'd just be keeping Kuudere. (I am not a fan of Frozen Flower, simply because if I were a new troper, I know I'd be playing Guess The Trope. I can frankly already imagine the TRS thread on Frozen Flower should it win.)

The argument appears to be that we want as clear and straightforward a name as possible. In this case, I'm afraid that means it's probably not going to end up in a poetic or funny name, because poetics and humor, pretty much by definition, require some obfuscation.

I guess redirects are still free, though, so we can feel free to call Raven a Frozen Flower around the wiki if we like. But if we need a clear, unambiguous name, then let's have a clear, unambiguous name, not one where people are going to be complaining in two months that they thought it was about daffodils in January.

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#166: Sep 7th 2011 at 3:46:51 AM

Like Ice Cream? *

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
LordGriffin Since: Sep, 2010
#167: Sep 7th 2011 at 5:52:39 AM

How about we take a break from trying to rename kuudere and try to rename sushi, instead. We've allowed such gratuitous Japanese take root for too long! I say that we start calling it Vinegared Rice Ball With Other Food Stuffs. My local Vinegared Rice Ball With Other Food Stuffs World might need a bigger sign, but it's for the best!

Back on topic: How about Cooly Caring?

edited 7th Sep '11 6:14:45 AM by LordGriffin

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#168: Sep 7th 2011 at 7:19:51 AM

[up][up][up] Are we going to rename Broken Bird then?

Since you know... it's not about actual birds.

Some concepts are best identified using an analogy. This trope is one of them.

Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#169: Sep 7th 2011 at 6:12:16 PM

I have to say that frozen flower makes me think of a beautiful Ice Queen, not this, though it does get the point across.

My troper wall
LordGriffin Since: Sep, 2010
#170: Sep 7th 2011 at 6:29:32 PM

[up]I think that the best bet is to rename this as Frozen Flower and hope for whatever the reverse of Trope Decay is.

LenisJates from TO, Canada Since: Aug, 2010
#171: Sep 7th 2011 at 6:58:30 PM

Although I would prefer Kuudere to be the main name, Frozen Flower does have a nice ring to it. Kuudere will be kept as redirect though, right?

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#172: Sep 7th 2011 at 7:00:14 PM

traditionally we keep previous names as redirects

MegaJ Since: Oct, 2009
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#174: Sep 7th 2011 at 7:18:40 PM

How? Like Acebrock said, "Frozen Flower" evokes the idea of a beautiful Ice Queen more than "someone who is stoic/emotionless on the outside, but has a repressed/rarely-revealed warm/kind/affecionate heart".

edited 7th Sep '11 7:19:02 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#175: Sep 7th 2011 at 7:20:17 PM

[up][up] We are not keeping Kuudere. We already voted not to. It's not an option.

[up] I don't get the idea of Frozen Flower either. I think people just want to have the least illustrative names that they can come up with so that they can shove as much of their own random baggage on the trope as they feel like.

Giving it a different name that will encourage misuse by being completely non-indicative is not the cure for a non-indicative name.

edited 7th Sep '11 7:22:36 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

AlternativeTitles: KuudereTake4
15th Sep '11 3:53:00 PM

Crown Description:

Final crowner for the trope formerly known as Kuudere. Do not add more titles to this crowner.

Total posts: 1,088
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