Maybe we should start implementing a system that mandates attaching one's reason(s) for their particular vote(s) (which would be also tracked by troper handle), so that we could easily determine which voters are considering the crowner seriously and which ones are just being blindly stubborn (i.e. "If I can't have the old title, then I'll downvote every proposed alternative in the hopes that enough like-minded voters do the same, such that none of the proposals pass!").
edited 6th Sep '11 8:12:24 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.That seems a little undemocratic to me. Anyway, that's probably a discussion for Wiki Talk, not this thread.
Frozen Flower seems to me to be the best option.
It's already a redirect.
It's referenced in the description (flowers underneath snow).
It's a rather poetic name describing an image that evokes the emotional nuances of the trope without being overly specific.
It's very similar to Broken Bird (which in fact is what it was patterned after).
Yeah, I'm changing my vote to up. Yes, flowers that are frozen have loads of symbolism associated with them, but since we don't have a page for that and no one seems interested in making one, it works here.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Frozen Flower makes me think Visual trope/ Faux Symbolism
Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.comI know that we need a solution, but I feel the need to speak against the current topper. It doesn't work nearly as well as a "name". It's a decent description, but it can't really be used in a sentence the same way as kuudere or Frozen Flower can. It's difficult to refer to a character as "Cold Outside Sweet Inside" in causal troping.
Raven is a kuudere. Raven is a Frozen Flower. Raven is Cold Outside Sweet Inside. At that point, it's not a catchy name at all. It's just a generic description that you don't need a pothole to say. It lacks any creative punch whatsoever. There's no life in it. There's no fun. It's an emotionally dead name.
Hey, I came up with the name, and I largely agree with you. But it's as simple and clear a description of the trope as I think can be formulated. If I had my way, we'd just be keeping Kuudere. (I am not a fan of Frozen Flower, simply because if I were a new troper, I know I'd be playing Guess The Trope. I can frankly already imagine the TRS thread on Frozen Flower should it win.)
The argument appears to be that we want as clear and straightforward a name as possible. In this case, I'm afraid that means it's probably not going to end up in a poetic or funny name, because poetics and humor, pretty much by definition, require some obfuscation.
I guess redirects are still free, though, so we can feel free to call Raven a Frozen Flower around the wiki if we like. But if we need a clear, unambiguous name, then let's have a clear, unambiguous name, not one where people are going to be complaining in two months that they thought it was about daffodils in January.
How about we take a break from trying to rename kuudere and try to rename sushi, instead. We've allowed such gratuitous Japanese take root for too long! I say that we start calling it Vinegared Rice Ball With Other Food Stuffs. My local Vinegared Rice Ball With Other Food Stuffs World might need a bigger sign, but it's for the best!
Back on topic: How about Cooly Caring?
edited 7th Sep '11 6:14:45 AM by LordGriffin
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Are we going to rename Broken Bird then?
Since you know... it's not about actual birds.
Some concepts are best identified using an analogy. This trope is one of them.
I have to say that frozen flower makes me think of a beautiful Ice Queen, not this, though it does get the point across.
My troper wall
I think that the best bet is to rename this as Frozen Flower and hope for whatever the reverse of Trope Decay is.
How? Like Acebrock said, "Frozen Flower" evokes the idea of a beautiful Ice Queen more than "someone who is stoic/emotionless on the outside, but has a repressed/rarely-revealed warm/kind/affecionate heart".
edited 7th Sep '11 7:19:02 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.![]()
We are not keeping Kuudere. We already voted not to. It's not an option.
I don't get the idea of Frozen Flower either. I think people just want to have the least illustrative names that they can come up with so that they can shove as much of their own random baggage on the trope as they feel like.
Giving it a different name that will encourage misuse by being completely non-indicative is not the cure for a non-indicative name.
edited 7th Sep '11 7:22:36 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Crown Description:
Final crowner for the trope formerly known as Kuudere. Do not add more titles to this crowner.

It really is.
Edit:: of course I would be page topper
edited 6th Sep '11 7:24:34 PM by Acebrock
My troper wall