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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#201: Sep 28th 2011 at 2:09:43 PM

[up]What about No-Name? She is fairly nice.

I also call bullshit on Wolverine as a headmaster. I pray the story at last focus on how such arrangement doesn't make any sense.

I also hope the students will be divided as well (i.e. there will be students in Utopia as well). It would be very weird if the New X-Men shown in Schism and Generation Hope 12 end up banding to Wolverine's side. They would fit very well as supporting cast for Generation Hope from now on.

[up][up][up]Well, it would be weird naming the school after them. Jean is the only of his former loves that has any connection with it.

edited 28th Sep '11 2:10:50 PM by Heatth

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#202: Sep 28th 2011 at 2:12:16 PM

[up] D'oh! I totally forgot about No-Name! I was actually thinking of Hannah Conover from that '90s two-shot.

NitztheBloody Nitz the Bloody from SO CAL Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
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#203: Sep 28th 2011 at 10:07:02 PM

I'm sure that Cyclops, between the formation of Utopia in the Dark Avengers X-Over and the events of Schism, came up with a contingency plan if the island were ever compromised. If not, then he's....well, just as bad a strategist as I thought.

But didn't Wolverine and Archangel build the X-Cave in X-Force for that exact reason?

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Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
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#204: Sep 29th 2011 at 7:23:24 AM

You know, the X-Cave or something similar might work for Wolverine. Think about it. There are only 7 new mutants alive (the five lights, Hope and the psychic baby) right now. So it's not like the Jean Grey School of Higher Learning will need to be a big public place that actively seeks to recruit young mutants. This means the X-School can be hidden.

I think Utopia's biggest problem was how public it was. This invited EVERYONE to attack it and significantly hampered Cyclops' vision of a mutant utopia. Wolverine could learn from this and avoid exposing his kids to danger by just laying low.

Though if he plans on building the EPCOT-esque metal globe and putting ice crystals on the roofs of the buildings, he might have to consider moving his school to Latveria.

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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#205: Sep 29th 2011 at 11:35:51 AM

[up]The preview showed he is reconstructing the old mansion (which is, like, the first place people will look for the X Men if they leave Utopia). And its new layout is much more obvious as "weird people live here" then Utopia ever was. I wonder what the hell Wolverine was smoking when he decided for that arrangement.

Also, even if Utopia is an obvious target, it is, at last, an easy to defend one. No hiding places around it. When the Purifiers invaded the school and killed many, they did so by hiding in the woods. Much harder to do the same in Utopia. Sure, it don't make difference for a Sentinel, but it is much more safe against non powered humans (which were the ones who caused most of the problems, recently).

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#206: Sep 29th 2011 at 1:41:11 PM

Aaron in an interview today implied Xavier is going with Team Gold. He said he'd appear in the first issue of Wolverine and the X-Men to "pass the torch" to Logan. That's good to hear. People were worried he'd essentially give up on his own dream.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
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#207: Sep 29th 2011 at 2:01:40 PM

I really don't know what to think about that.

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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#208: Sep 29th 2011 at 2:12:50 PM

[up][up]I, meanwhile, am dreaded with this news. Having Xavier in one side and Magneto in another means people will most likely take one size as the 'good guys' and the other as the 'bad guys'. Not a good thing if you want to stay neutral. To make things worse, most of the classic "good" X Men are with Wolverine, while Cyclops' mean team is composed of only morally ambiguous individuals (including himself).

Alkthash Was? Since: Jan, 2001
Was?
#209: Sep 29th 2011 at 2:57:49 PM

It's not like Logans team is completely squeaky clean either, hosting members like Kid Omega, Gambit, Frenzy, Fantomex, Deadpool and himself.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#210: Sep 29th 2011 at 3:09:33 PM

Gambit is a mean stream X-Men for ages now. He is the "betrayer" who never actually gets to betrayal to team. He hardly counts. At any rate, Cyclops main team is composed entirely by former villains and morally ambiguous character (even Colossus fit on that now!). Wolverine's main team has some odd balls (Toad and Kid Omega), but it is mosty nice, unlike cyclops.

Anyway, Cyclops gets freaking Magneto. The X Men arch enemy. While Wolverine have, Xavier, The Mentor. Say a random casual reader just pick up an issue. What do you think they will interpret from that?

Alkthash Was? Since: Jan, 2001
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#212: Sep 29th 2011 at 8:02:06 PM

Remember when Gambit was a Horseman for Apocalypse and worked for Mr. Sinister with the Marauders in the last few years? Hell ever since the Utopia storyline his Death persona has been peeking out more and more.

And while the Uncanny line up is composed of morally ambiguous characters, the rest of the Blue team has plenty of heroic characters. Like Storm, Psylocke, Jubilee, Warlock, Cypher, Magma and Dani.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
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#213: Sep 30th 2011 at 6:44:10 AM

The girl in Wolverine and the X-men is Oya, isn't she?

edited 30th Sep '11 6:52:35 AM by Canidaemon

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#214: Sep 30th 2011 at 1:09:20 PM

Ugh, I can't believe M-Day defenders actually exist. I'm presently debating one on CBR.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
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#215: Sep 30th 2011 at 1:24:23 PM

M-Day defenders as in people who cheered the "No More Mutants" thing?

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#216: Sep 30th 2011 at 1:58:13 PM

[up] Yup. The guy I'm debating right now is arguing that it was necessary because, with Morrison's run establishing that mutants will win the evolutionary race just by "waiting it out," a certain amount of "drama" is removed from the narrative. I argue that none of that changes anything because the mutants would still have to fight to get to that point, and besides, we'd never actually see that point anyway due to the sliding timescale.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
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#217: Sep 30th 2011 at 3:33:36 PM

While I can understand the drama and how M-Day ushered in a whole new chapter in mutantkind, I am sad that what was lost was the idea of a new Mutant Subculture. I loved District X and the U-Men, which could only happen in the a pre-M-day world.

Oh, well, Hope has arrived and we have already seen 7 new mutants spring out (with one casualty), so there's still a chance.

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#218: Sep 30th 2011 at 3:49:11 PM

[up] Really, I'm just angry about all the great and potentially-great characters sacrificed to Quesada's apparent pathological need to control everything. Wallflower, Icarus, Network... Not to mention the countless others shunted into Limbo like Wind Dancer.

...yes, I like the X-Kids, how can you tell?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#219: Oct 1st 2011 at 7:16:26 AM

[up][up][up]Eh, I agree with that, partially. Morrison's run did established the mutants as far more common and influential then they were previously (even without Genosha). It is not about 'drama', exactly, but general direction of the franchise. The theme of people having to hide themselves for what they were ended up kinda lost.

Also, excluding the arcs immediately after the Decimation (the 198 arc was dumb), I like the direction the franchise turned to. The whole 'endangered species' things.

Maybe the number of remaining mutants was far too low, however. Specially since most of it seems to be assemble in US for no reason. This number could be very well be the number of mutants in US still and the history wouldn't change, except it would be more believable.

I do lament to lost of nice X Children, however. I liked that particular arc of the New X-Men, but the waste of characters is depressing. I also do like the District X stories, although I can see why it don't mix well with franchise.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#220: Oct 1st 2011 at 7:47:32 AM

[up] I'd argue that that was actually consistent with the themes of the comic, myself. After all, X-Men is about finding a place in a world that hates and fears you, and, as far as I know, anyway, no repressed group in history ever accomplished that by hiding.

NitztheBloody Nitz the Bloody from SO CAL Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
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#221: Oct 1st 2011 at 8:10:05 AM

The original X-Men were created in the midst of the civil rights movement, when the notion that people of different races weren't bad was still fairly radical. Even then, Xavier's School wasn't about teaching young mutants to celebrate their differences, but to pass for normal— controlling their powers, hiding behind masks when using their abilities, and being able to one day integrate into society. (First Class really makes this clear, as James Mc Avoy plays Xavier as trying to be normal and fit in, no matter how bad human society treats mutants).

Morrison's X-Men represented a long-overdue update away from that melting pot and towards a multicultural society, where being a mutant, and all that entails, is something to be proud of. Hence, mutant culture is introduced, with their own neighborhoods, histories, philosophies, and even musicians. Suddenly, being a mutant can be a valid identity statement, and there's actual hope for Xavier's Dream. Even seeing human teenagers wearing a "Magneto was Right" T-Shirt is progress, no matter how badly they misinterpret the super-villain. There are still challenges, but the things the X-Men fight for become tangible— not just the ability to survive, but to truly be themselves.

Unfortunately, all the story material there is rendered irrelevant when there's only a couple hundred mutants or less. You could shift the minority aspect to the experiences of Native Americans, as post M-Day the School was basically a reservation. Of course, that wasn't what happened, as a number of factors (most notably Joss Whedon taking forever to finish his run with the main characters) kept the franchise in stasis.

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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#222: Oct 1st 2011 at 8:24:12 AM

[up][up]I know that. And I a would agree. However, there were no smooth transition between 'hiding in tunnels' and 'having a mutant neighborhood. Think on it, what is the point of the Morlock tunnels if the Distric X exist? It is that the Morlocks are ugly? But I remember many freaky dudes in the Distric X as well.

I am all for a developing in which the mutants finally find their places in the society and all. But that should happen smoothly in the actual story line. Preferably over some in-story years (Comic-Book Time is why the dissonance between Morrison era and the 80's is so absurd). Morrison had a good idea. But that idea works better for a 'future' of mutant kind, no something taht is suddenly present even though nothing in the past indicates that.

That answer works for [up] as well, I guess.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#223: Oct 1st 2011 at 8:42:56 AM

I'm not saying Morrison's run was perfect. The first part of Riot at Xavier's was pretty slow, and Heatth is right in that he seems to have made Sublime a bit too important to the overall mythos, but it's still the best iteration of the X-Men I've read, and Quesada has no excuse for discarding it simply because he didn't like it.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#224: Oct 1st 2011 at 9:05:48 AM

I am not trying to discuss the overall merits of Morrison's run (this timetongue). I am debating about what he did to the mutants overall. The thing is, although his idea were nice (my favorite part of his run, really). The problem is it doesn't really mesh with what the X Men have been being so far. And it didn't mesh which what the other writers (and editors) have been writing/planing.

The thing about Morrison's run is it was far to off from the franchise. Yeah, it would be a logical conclusion for the X Men, but something for future. Not for "now". Specially this this "now" is implied to have been the status quo for some time, even though it haven't (from the reader perspective). To put simply, Morrison's run was "invalidated" because it diverged far too much from the franchise in a non natural way.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#225: Oct 1st 2011 at 10:30:33 AM

Interesting you'd bring the run up as a "logical conclusion," because apparently (and I've just heard this from word of mouth, so I don't know the source), Morrison deliberately wrote his run in such a way that if you wanted to consider it the grand finale of the franchise, you could.


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