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X-Men Schism

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PrimoVictoria Since: Dec, 1969
#76: Sep 2nd 2011 at 1:02:10 PM

@Dragon Quest Z: I don't like your argument that direction Cyclops was taken over was only done on purpose to make things darker. Joss Whedon and writers following him, mostly Ed Brubaker, Mike Carey, Warren Ellis and Craig Kyle and Christopher Yost, wanted to take Scott back to original Chris Claremont's portrayal, which I think they did. Scott they gave us is shown as competent leader (finally), being able to take hard decisions in dire situations, instead of beinf a complete wuss to make W Olverine look coller. Even Matt Fraction stayed true to that and he managed to screw up everything else regarding X-Men. I must yet read Schism, but from what I managed to gather, this doesn't sound as death etering him. Quite frankly, Jason Aaron seems to like Scott and it looks like he wants to embody Gray-and-Gray Morality, showing that both sides have a point. Also, Kieron Gillen writes UXM, he writes very sympathetic Scott and wouldn't just turn his book into "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants by different name". Have some faith in the guy.

And Xavier doing amoral things isn't new, he was always slighty manipulative and was breaking his own rules before (for the record - back when he was hiring Mystique as a secret agent, he brainwashed bunch of federal agents without a second thought, it was before Whedon even started writing Astonishing X-Men). The thing is not, that they made him doo more questionable things, because people who know this character realize he really could do that. It's about the fact, that others started to calling him on it. And you're extragerrating anyway, he made two questionable choices that everybody were pissed at him - about Vulcan and his teammates and about Danger - which he repeled for and did everything he could to fix his own mistakes. Not only that, but Mike Carey devoted loads of issues of X-men Legacy to show different sides of Xavier and ensure people will not hate him, but understand motivations behind his decisions. You however, are acting like every series started portraying him as Complete Monster with no redeeming qualities , which is stupidies extragerration I ever seen. Dude make two mistakes, that bite him and all he fought for in the ass, that's what happened. They didn't turned him intoa second coming of super-hitler, like you're insisting.

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#78: Sep 4th 2011 at 6:37:14 AM

If you ask me, I am glad Wolverine killed off Mystique. The fact is she double-crossed too many people, and her shape-shifting abilities created way too much Paranoia Fuel. I just found it creepy that one minute she takes a stance and the next minute she takes the opposite stance...like a metronome! Her motives are beyond comprehension, and I bet if you ask what she is thinking, then you will answer she isn't thinking! [lol] I admit that the mystery attached to the character may have been cool...for a time. But after a while, it just worked against her. I'm just glad that she is not appearing in this storyline. Even if I don't have first-hand knowledge of X Men Schism, I know this much...when one group gets split into two, it is vital that each leader makes sure that his followers are on the same page as he is. Mystique would never have been on the same page of Cyclops or Wolverine. She was just too much of a liability. I found Wolverine killing off Mystique to be very relieving. [awesome] Praise be to Wolverine!

edited 4th Sep '11 6:38:26 AM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#80: Sep 4th 2011 at 9:40:15 AM

Can someone explain to me briefly why Cyclops and Wolverine are fighting? I mean, the disagreement between them has been explained, but why don't they just each take the people who agree with them and go their own ways? It's ridiculous for them to be wasting time and energy fighting each other at a time when there are so few mutants left anyway.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#82: Sep 4th 2011 at 12:39:06 PM

[up][up]The disagreement between then hadn't been fully explained nor have them fought yet. Wait one or two months and the answers should be given in the Schim mini series.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#83: Sep 5th 2011 at 10:33:43 AM

Not about Schism, but it's X-men related and it is on topic about taking a character and flanderizing it for the sake of a twist, drama or plain lazy writing. Peter David did just that, I think, with Rahne on the latest X-factor book.

Haven't been this infuriated at a comic book writer since Claremont took over Exiles.

WOOF!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#84: Sep 5th 2011 at 10:37:50 AM

Not entirely sure of what you are talking about. I do feel, however, the last story-line was kinda unnecessary. Hopefully he will pick it up again in near future and work better with it.

I definitivelly don't feel whatever infuriated you is as bad as Claremont run over Exiles, though.

edited 5th Sep '11 10:48:03 AM by Heatth

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#85: Sep 5th 2011 at 11:05:04 AM

[up] Wait, Claremont did something bad by an X-Book? Same Claremont?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#86: Sep 5th 2011 at 11:13:00 AM

Yeah. He was great in the 80s. Really awesome. Reading stories back them is gratification and it shows how a a good crossover should be made. Yet, he have been losing his touch in the recent years. His run on Exiles was particularly painful. It stripped the stories of all its greatness of past and the series never recovered. Unfortunately, because this was by far one of my favorite books. To be fair, however, I feel the series had already Jumped the Shark a some time before he taking over.

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#87: Sep 5th 2011 at 11:57:30 AM

[up] Loved Exiles, too, and it's good to hear I wasn't the only one that felt it suffer under Claremont.

What got me so enraged was Rahne's reactions to her baby. Even if she was scared/afraid at the time, her first act as a mother was to literally drive it away and claim it was her punishment. You know, the child she willingly conceived with Hrimhari, she abandoned it like she apparently abandoned any semblance of character development throughout all these years. Nope, Rahne is still the fragile little ignorant girl suffering from abuse.

Guh!

WOOF!
PrimoVictoria Since: Dec, 1969
#88: Sep 5th 2011 at 12:41:49 PM

" Wait, Claremont did something bad by an X-Book? Same Claremont?"

He ran Exiles to the ground with painfull stories and things that just weren't connected to anyting else - one story has Exiles visiting world where Doctor Doom was leader of Fantastic Four and Reed Richards was Mole Man. Spider-Man 2099 was with team and in one issue we see this world's Sue Storm seducing him. Yet in the next one he is in love, mutual one ,with this world's Gwen Stacy, who wasn't even introduced until this point. X-Men: Die By The Sword was as bad, with Merlin suffering so big Character Derailment that next writer who took him had just hijacked his body by The Doctor to don't have deal with it, at the end all things were somehow blamed on Captain Britian who was in no way guilty of what happened and it has Exiles being worried that Morph is being taken over by Proteus, because Morph acts...just exactly as usual. His Genext was bad too - half of the story they spend talking about something that should be totally obvious and he suffered Critical Research Failure with telepath activating pain receptors in the brain, something that doesn't exist (our body has pain receptors that are connected with brain, but brain itself doesn't have them, you cannot feel that your brain hurts. If brain had pain receptors, neurochirugy would be a nightmare). His last run on X-Men wasn't much better with Rachel and Enma acting like a spoiled children, and former being somehowe telepatically dominated by some lizard-people, despite being supossely one of the strongest telepaths on Earth, and alterting her body with telekinesis to look like a lizard person (don't ask me how it's that supposed to work). In my country fandom dates him entering fallen creator status as somewhere halfway his run on X-Treme X-Men with Excalibur being deffinite moment (we were laughing for years at him retconnecting Grant Morrison's Planet X with an "impostor").

edited 5th Sep '11 12:42:21 PM by PrimoVictoria

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#89: Sep 5th 2011 at 1:37:20 PM

Would anyone care to take a crack at giving a little context on the various X Men subpages so those of us that don't follow it closely can identify what's in each page group?

Fight smart, not fair.
PrimoVictoria Since: Dec, 1969
#90: Sep 5th 2011 at 2:01:16 PM

You mean, explaining what's the difference between each X-Men series or what's the connetion between X-Men and teams like X-Force, X-Factor or New Mutants or to explain who is in what team after Schizm?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#91: Sep 5th 2011 at 2:05:57 PM

[up][up][up][up]I felt it weird too. I didn't felt it was that bad though (she was suffering quite a bit for all this time). Nothing a bit of dialogue and development in the next few issues can't savage. The next few issues are crucial.

[up][up]You mean in the X-Men page itself? Yeah, I guess this would be good. I don't don't trust my own literarly abilities, so I don't do that myself. I am adding a new index for individual character pages in there, however (it is mixing with individual comics, which is not good). I am also deleting the one comic in the index without a page.

The subpages themselves may need some revamp. The multiple characters are a complete mess. I started working on it yesterday, by moving around duplicates and will continue until I am finished. I may need help to sort Characters.X-Men Other Teams characters, however.

PS:Btw, does anyone knows what that first sentence in the X-Men page means?

PPS: Should I list there other characters related to the X-Men, even if not with too strong ties? Like Quicksilver, the Sub-Mariner and even Ms. Marvel (I end up adding Daken before thinking it might not be appropriate)?

edited 5th Sep '11 2:20:41 PM by Heatth

WarriorEowyn from Victoria Since: Oct, 2010
#92: Sep 5th 2011 at 2:24:51 PM

From Wikipedia:

"Do you know where your children are?" is a popular question used as a public service announcement for parents on American television. Its heyday was throughout the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, but has made a comeback as of late. The question is usually asked around 10:00PM or 11:00PM, depending on the market and/or the time of the local youth curfew.

I'm guessing one of the comics played off of it with "Do you know what your children are?"

EDIT: Google and Wikipedia also tell me that the quote was from viral advertising for the "Fall of the Mutants" storyline.

edited 5th Sep '11 2:31:03 PM by WarriorEowyn

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#93: Sep 7th 2011 at 9:47:48 AM

Beast and Quentin Quire confirmed for Wolverine's team. Good to see Hank in an x-book again, and having Quentin on Logan's side is interesting.

WOOF!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#94: Sep 7th 2011 at 10:01:41 AM

[up] More interestingly, Psylocke's been confirmed for both sides. Which they said wouldn't happen. So it either slipped their minds, or we don't know the full story yet...

Also, I accidentally started a flame war on CBR over whether or not Beast blew up a planet in Astonishing X-Men #30 and if he was justified in doing so. Go me...

Canidaemon I found porn! Since: Aug, 2010
I found porn!
#95: Sep 7th 2011 at 10:42:32 AM

Beast, being my favorite X-man, could get away with being an utter monster. Wait, he already has, as Dark Beast.

WOOF!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#96: Sep 7th 2011 at 12:00:03 PM

[up]And Dark Beast is my favorite X-villain. His humorous complete lack of any thing resembling morality is just too much fun.tongue

Quentin with Wolverine helps to keep things neutral, I guess. Unlike the 'villains' in Cyclops side, he has made no effort on redemption or whatsoever. Sure, he is still mostly a stupid teenage then a true villain, but for the very same reason, he is likely much more dangerous (too much power with a too much stupid rebellious teen).

[up][up]I should pick up and read Astonishing some day. I dropped shortly after Whedon runs ended. Couldn't bring myself to care too much about the story. It gets any better latter?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#97: Sep 7th 2011 at 12:58:28 PM

[up] The issue I read wasn't very good. It was by Warren Ellis and featured gratuitous character assassination and death of Forge and, as mentioned, Beast maybe causing a planet to blow up.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#98: Sep 7th 2011 at 3:22:06 PM

[up]So it don't worth reading?

Oh, and I am just reading the Flame War in the CBR forum. Apparently the root of the discussion is someone arguing you can't call Beast a murder (or "homicider", or "genocider") 'cause technically he wasn't dealing with human beings. This is happening in a X-Men forum.

edited 7th Sep '11 3:22:21 PM by Heatth

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#99: Sep 7th 2011 at 3:24:39 PM

[up] You should read the "Xavier's Dream was Stupid" thread. Full of racewank and conspiracy theories. I was thinking about reporting it to Fandom_Wank, but, alas, no Journalfen account.

edited 7th Sep '11 3:24:48 PM by HamburgerTime

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#100: Sep 7th 2011 at 4:28:14 PM

Well, that bit about Quentin Quire AKA Kid Omega being on Wolverine's team is interesting. Of course, Cyclops did tell the dude to his face that "Six of you on your best day wouldn't make one of him [Wolverine] on his worst!" If “The Reason You Suck” Speech is anything to go by, Cyclops wouldn't want Quentin on his team at all.

Who's willing to bet that Wolverine will make a man out of bratty little Quentin? evil grin

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

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