Ya, sorry I had only ever seen it used to describe those stringer-like humor bits in anime and manga. Also I'm not really the otaku type I'm a bit of everything nerd, I just believe that these are separate but similar tropes we are talking about here.
Cute but Psycho: Character is introduced as cute but turns out to be crazy.
Yangire: Character switches between a cute persona and a crazy, often murderous one.
Yangire in japan is also more common in Horror and Drama than Cute but Psycho is in the west as most Western examples are usually laughable and in comedies. Though this is not always the case for either trope.
edited 28th Aug '11 3:55:58 AM by Vyctorian
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You have obviously not read the last one hundred fifty-something posts that say it originated in Japan. And no, it doesn't remotely have a similar relativity to a made up word.
Edit:
I did and I have, but I have not ever heard of 'framily' except here and now. And unlike 'framily', Yangire has, if not exactly definite, a definition like all the other made up words that make up our language.
edited 28th Aug '11 5:41:57 AM by MikaruKeiko
Until death do we partOf course it comes from Japan, just like "framily" comes from America. You might at least try reading my post before arguing with what I didn't say. But it is a 100% made-up term, just like "framily'. It was made-up in Japan (quite recently, in fact), but that doesn't mean it's not a made-up word.
Edit: p.s. in case you missed the nakama debates (where "framily" nearly became our new term), "framily" is well-attested, going back at least a couple of decades (which probably makes it older than "yangire"), has thousands and thousands of google hits, is mentioned in lexicographer's blogs, and is even the name of a movie. Framily has everything yangire has, and more!
edited 28th Aug '11 5:51:46 AM by Xtifr
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.Just becuase you have no issues with renaming it, doesn't mean we should rename it. This is a working trope with a great number of wicks and inbounds, there isn't any proven misuse, it's a pre-existing term, and it's better than the altrernative(the trope isn't Cute But Psycho, if anything it's Cute and Psycho), so if we rename it, it would set a precedent in that if someone doesn't like the name and insists on changing it, they will succed at it. Wait, that is how things already work around here anyway.
Anyway, the way the current trope is written is more like Cute But Psycho, while the term Yangire is Cute And Psycho, so the split is necessary, splitting Cute But Psycho off with a description similiar to the current trope description, and fixing the Yangire one to include a mention on the personality shifts.
And after that we could try renaming Yangire to Cute And Crazy, something I would still be opposed to, on the basis that Yangire has proven to be a working title that had great wicks and inbounds, it didn't generate any misuse, and it is a pre-existing term.
Oh, and Worldmaker, noone is saying that it's the "same but in Japan", we are saying that they are different tropes, that happen in works of all over the world, and not just in Japan. The reason I'm defending the current name isn't becuase it's a Japanese term, but becuase it' a working one.
edited 28th Aug '11 8:54:24 AM by shark33
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The claim that it's working depends entirely on the theory that it's a mostly-Japan-specific trope. The claim that it's a mostly-Japan-specific trope seems to depend on the fact that it's only appearing in Japanese works (plus a little special pleading). The argument is circular, and I disagree with both claims. It's not working.
If this were one of the -dere tropes, I would probably be arguing to keep it on GP. I have at least that much otaku in me. But after the mess we made with nakama for so many years, it's clear to me that the otaku on this site know less about actual Japanese culture and language than they think they do. (I certainly never realized that we were abusing "nakama" so badly.) This isn't even part of the family of tropes that make some sense to me. It seems to be one of the most obscure and not-a-real-word-even-in-Japan Japanese terms we have, and it looks too broad (even if we make a narrower subtrope) to qualify as one of those special only-in-Japan things. I'm neutral on split vs rename (I'm neither a lumper nor a splitter), but I absolutely support changing the name either way.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.Both of the things listed on the split options are referred to as Yangire in anime fandom. Neither is specific to Japanese works though. It's also hard to find a firm line to define them. A lot of works aren't long enough for the character to flip back and forth enough to establish which one it is so a lot of the split is just going to be based on wild mass guessing. We're going to have a huge number of duplicates between the two.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickNo one is saying this is a special, only in Japan thing. The "switching between the two" version seems more common in Japan, but it might not be, and no one is claiming it is exclusive.
Especially with split winning, I don't think Yangire should be the name for either trope, since as shima pointed out, its used to refer to both. It should probably be turned into an exampleless fanspeak page, noting its used for both.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.As much as I prefer to keep the trope named Yangire and just split, I would be okay with a soft-split with an English title, where we have a section explaining the yangire subtype, and have yangire as a redirect.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)![]()
Actually it should only be used to refer to one of them. However Idiots think it means the broader trope.
No, we don't. The only difference is that it's maybe more common and we don't really have proof of that because the numbers are skewed by the current name. All that having a bit saying that the trope is common in anime is going to do is encourage the current issue of under use.
You say the trope should only refer to one of them. The fandom uses the term equally for both.
edited 28th Aug '11 4:19:41 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickYeah, most of the Cute But Psycho types are Yandere. Yangire usually switch back and forth, or at the very least it's never hidden that they are psycho at all, even at the beginning, while with Yndere and Cute But Psycho it is in the beginning most of the time.
edited 28th Aug '11 4:46:18 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)![]()
fixed. I meant Yan Dere but accidentally put a g in place of d . :P
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Not in my experience. In my experience the switching type is almost always established as cute before they're established as psycho. I can't think of any, either Eastern or Western that have been established as both at the same time other than Harley Quinn and she's more Yandere.
edited 28th Aug '11 4:51:27 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
She's both Depending on the Writer.
Can we please tone down the "it really means this" rhetoric. After all the years we were actively mislead by well-meaning but misguided otaku about the "real" meaning of nakama (which is actually a word, unlike yangire), it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Feel free to say, "to the best of my knowledge, it means this" or "all the evidence I have clearly indicates that it means this", but, unless you're willing to present some strong credentials, please stop trying to convince us that you come bearing the unvarnished and unchallengeable truth on this matter. It's actually only making me more skeptical!
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.I hate to make an Appeal to My Own Authority, but I am a fluent Japanese speaker, lived there for three years while in the Army, and am pretty familiar with the general culture.
As far as I know, Yangire, is a neologism created by the producers of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, is not a "real" Japanese term otherwise, and is simply not used by anyone outside of anime fandom (that is, you won't find it used in general Japanese society).
Or, to put it another way, the trope title has the very same reasons for changing it that Nakama had, and lacks every reason to keep the title that Nakama lacked. There is thus no reason whatsoever to keep "Yangire" other than fan obstinancy.
edited 28th Aug '11 5:34:34 PM by Worldmaker
Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?

also this article doesn't need a rename it needs a split.
edited 28th Aug '11 3:18:21 AM by Vyctorian
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