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Needs a re-name: Yangire

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DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#76: Aug 27th 2011 at 3:37:24 AM

I'm not a Lumper, I just don't want to see articles split for absolutely no reason.

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#77: Aug 27th 2011 at 3:38:42 AM

[up]Never again you were, plus there are no other articles to lump into it here anyways.

edited 27th Aug '11 3:44:57 AM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com
CCMars Since: Apr, 2009
#78: Aug 27th 2011 at 3:39:15 AM

Wow, a rename I actually support for once!

How about Crouching Cutie Hidden Madman? Or Chipper Time Bomb?

Edit: Modest Mouse has a song called A Manic Depressive Named Laughing Boy. A Maniac Named Laughing Girl? (Though I'm sure this isn't necessarily an all-female trope.)

edited 27th Aug '11 4:03:47 AM by CCMars

DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#79: Aug 27th 2011 at 3:40:14 AM

[up][up]I'm sorry, I can't seem to understand what you're saying there.

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#80: Aug 27th 2011 at 5:29:53 AM

Yangire is not part of the -dere tropes.

What happened was that Yandere was being confused with this universal trope about cute but crazy girls. So the term Yangire was created to identify cute but crazy girls who are not Yandere. It's a supertrope to Yandere, and using an English term for it does not in anyway mess up the relationship between the -dere tropes.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#81: Aug 27th 2011 at 6:02:22 AM

Frankly, I'm dubious about some of the -dere terms. I strongly suspect western fans are mixing up real terms (like tsundere) with made-up, thowaway terms that may have appeared once or twice as a joke. Even tsundere is a bit dubious, as it's clearly more of a recent made-up term in Japanese, not an actual word, bit it does seem to be catching on, and is in danger of becoming a real word. Some of the others, I suspect, are more popular in the US than in Japan, and qualify at best as a rare in-joke. Slang just isn't as precise as some people appear to believe. Even if it's foreign slang.

But that's a bit beside the point. This isn't even a -dere term, and it's clearly not Japan-specific in any way. As many people have explained,, it's a broad trope found in works throughout the world.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#82: Aug 27th 2011 at 6:25:21 AM

I'd like to propose that we also look into fixing the Gratuitous English page once again. It's got the same problem as this trope, but nobody is over there. Gratuitous German's got it, too.

edited 27th Aug '11 6:28:23 AM by DisasterGrind

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#83: Aug 27th 2011 at 6:26:00 AM

The big problem is that the trope is treated as far broader than it is. People are interpreting it as "Cute But Ax Crazy" when it should be "Yandere minus the Love Interest". (switching hidden yada yada see my previous posts)

The term means the latter, the former is a super trope however it has a large overlap with other tropes.

edited 27th Aug '11 6:27:42 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#84: Aug 27th 2011 at 6:33:03 AM

[up] You're not understanding; when you take away the 'love interest' part of the trope, you get "Cute But Crazy", which IS a broader trope.

edited 27th Aug '11 6:34:05 AM by DisasterGrind

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#85: Aug 27th 2011 at 6:48:01 AM

Furthermore, after the hash we made for years of a common, standard word like "nakama", I am more than a little dubious about claims to know the precise nuances of obscure slangy fanspeak terms from Japan. Such terms are rarely so precise and carefully bounded, in any language. Unofficial not-yet-words like this usually vary from speaker to speaker.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#86: Aug 27th 2011 at 7:29:49 AM

[up][up] Of course it's a broader trope than Yandere. However it's not a broad as what people make it out to be which is Cute Crazy People. These girls have to switch between looking cute and insane even if it's just a visual transformation (and they always were well shown to be Ax-Crazy on the inside like saying "Can I kill them now? Tee Hee") and back to cute (although it best used with both audio and visual going from Cute To Ax Crazy and back again) . If they do not that it's really not the term.

Break the Cutie to the point she goes insane and stays that way is something different.

If we want to make it the broad Cute Crazy People trope I am fine for a rename however the actual Yangire term's trope I think should stay.

The term stems from Nanoha Strikers where it looked like Nanoha went crazy for a second and blasted her students like crazy then back to normal after that. (Enhanced on DVD though her crazy expression was changed to disappointment that her students failed the test)

edited 27th Aug '11 7:33:16 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#87: Aug 27th 2011 at 7:37:19 AM

If they do not that it's really not the term.
According to whom? I hate to sound like the Other Wiki, but do you have something you can cite to support that claim? Something, preferably, a little more reliable than, say, the sources that told us what nakama means.

edited 27th Aug '11 7:37:45 AM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#88: Aug 27th 2011 at 7:43:17 AM

[up] So, this trope basically means 'Bipolar'? You're not really helping your case. The fact that it's been used a lot in anime/manga doesn't make it exclusive to it; heck, even the Yandere page makes it a point to mention the fact that was used elsewhere long before it was used in Japanese media. And your example on Nanoha doesn't help you in the even the slightest of ways.

"If we want to make it the broad Cute Crazy People trope I am fine for a rename however the actual Yangire term's trope I think should stay."

Why? then we'd have two articles that discuss the exact same thing.

Look, I'll just be frank: Japanese media isn't so special as to deserve it's own seperate versions of every trope on this website. Can't you see how silly it sounds? Imagine: " Gitarooshonen: In this article, we discuss how shonen characters pluck their guitar's low E string differentlythat their western counterparts."

edited 27th Aug '11 7:52:05 AM by DisasterGrind

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#89: Aug 27th 2011 at 7:51:35 AM

Urban Dictionary

Yangire In order to keep the original definition intact, another term has arisen to describe girls who exhibit yandere traits but do not fit the true definition of what a Yandere entails. This term, known as yangire (ヤンギレ), refers to characters who snap suddenly out of jealousy, irritation or something similar. Yangire is a combination of the two words yanderu (病んでる), meaning to be sick, and kire or gire (切れ), meaning to cut, slice, or "to snap". This behavior is different from that of a yandere character in regard to the motivation that sparked the change in the character. The Yandere is motivated through her love for the male protagonist, while a yangire character is motivated through other characters and will not be connected with emotions of love or attraction.

The Other Wiki

Yangire (ヤンギレ) originated in Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Strikers and is used to describe a character who is mentally ill and snaps instantly without showing affection for the victim of their outbursts. Yangire is another version of Yandere.

edited 27th Aug '11 7:55:11 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#90: Aug 27th 2011 at 8:03:42 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
peccantis Since: Oct, 2010
#91: Aug 27th 2011 at 8:08:30 AM

[up] Do we even have any proper, Western, "cutie is cute, then snaps, is murderous nutcase" examples yet?

DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#92: Aug 27th 2011 at 8:12:01 AM

I could think of some, but I think you mean in general, right? Sure, they're on the page. There'd be more if people weren't getting the impression that this is an Anime-only trope. ...And weren't misunderstanding the trope in general.

Look me dead in the eye and tell me that the rabbit from Hoodwinked! isn't a Yangire. ',:D

edited 27th Aug '11 8:12:41 AM by DisasterGrind

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#93: Aug 27th 2011 at 8:42:29 AM

I am saying that renaming the way the page is being used is fine (it's what everyone thinks it is in this thread)! I just think that the actual term and the way it's used as in " Girl with a (maybe) hidden crazy personality prone to snapping and switching" is different than what people have been pegging this page as which is any cute crazy girl. The term should be on an accurate trope or get it's own stub at least.

Also they are not all Bi Polar (it might be one reason for it but there are never any psychologists on TV to diagnose let alone help these girls.) Bi Polar in media itself is more connected to "Did You Take Your Meds Today?" or "Off His Meds". Way different than the way these girls are portrayed.

And seriously stop it with the flames.

edited 27th Aug '11 8:49:44 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#94: Aug 27th 2011 at 8:55:50 AM

I'm not flaming you, I'm just discussing something with you. I'm not exactly sure on what you're trying to say here, so I'll respond the best I can: No matter how you slice it, or try to make it selectively inclusive, it will always be a universal trope. All the sources you've provided helped me see to that. What's going on here is that we're playing up the Japanese flavour of this trope by using a Japanese name, when this trope is universal, and should be named as such.

As for the Bipolar thing, I was just kidding, seeing as how you seemed to be making the definition even more broad despite your continued efforts.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#95: Aug 27th 2011 at 9:22:10 AM

So there are two possible tropes here, which may or may not need to be split: A cute but psychotic character, and a cute but psychotic character who switches between the two, rather than just being both at the same time.

Should we do a crowner to see if that's split-worthy?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
DisasterGrind Since: May, 2012
#96: Aug 27th 2011 at 9:28:37 AM

[up]

What? I don't think so, but go ahead. Let me know how it turns out, I'm sleepy.

edited 27th Aug '11 9:33:02 AM by DisasterGrind

shark33 Since: Nov, 2010
#97: Aug 27th 2011 at 11:34:59 AM

So this post was ignored becuase of a mistake I made?

Anyway, the term Yangire is used to describe a Character Archetype, in other words, a trope. However, the way the current trope is written, it leaves out the most important part of it, which is the shifting between personalities.

Like Disaster Grind said, even if sarcastically, the trope is closer to a character being bipolar than anything else, but what matters is that it's two poles are Cute and Ax Crazy.

So like I previously said, most western examples some of you may be thinking of (and that I can think of ), don't have that shifting between the personalities, so they are other tropes like Stepford Smiler, Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, or the cute personality was only a Masquerade.

edited 27th Aug '11 11:43:16 AM by shark33

ChaoticNovelist Since: Jun, 2010
#98: Aug 27th 2011 at 1:42:02 PM

I read the discussion and I'm confused. The two main reasons for renaming seem to be:

1. This is a universal trope, nothing specifically japanese about it, so it shouldn't have a japanese name

2. This trope appears most often in anime/seldom used outside of anime so it should be renamed to get more use in western media.

What confuses me is that these reasons contradict each other. If its a universal trope and is often used outside anime, then all we need to do is add those examples. That solves the under use problem. If its not a universal trope, and is rarely used outside of anime, than the japanese name is suited for that media.

Another thing that confuses me is how a trope with hundreds of wicks and thousands of inbounds can be thought of as 'underused'.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#99: Aug 27th 2011 at 1:43:04 PM

Raso: The sources you quote don't support the claim you're making. Urban Dictionary (which is about as reliable a source as Robin Williams on LSD) says nothing about switching back and forth. Wikipedia (which is about as reliable as Robin Williams sober) says it's "another version of Yandere."

Based on that the latter, I'd suggest renaming this to Cute But Psycho (or something), and making Yangire a redirect to Yandere. Even if I accept that there is an actual difference between Yandere and Yangire (which I do), I see no evidence that it's different from the definition we have, which is a common trope worldwide.

(For that matter, the snapping-back-and-forth version is extremely common in western works as well. It's often how the character gets away with it until the big reveal.)

Fanspeak terms (even in Japan) tend to have as many definitions as they do users. Even a term as well-known as "science fiction" can spark arguments: just say "Star Wars is science fiction" is some forums, and you can start an argument that will go on for days!

edited 27th Aug '11 1:49:03 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#100: Aug 27th 2011 at 1:52:16 PM

No no no it can't be redirected to Yandere the term Yangire was created specifically to keep Yandere's meaning intact and put those that don't fit (IE not involving a Love Interest) in a new category. Its basic tropeing, (not done by us) we do this all the time at T Vtropes with splitting tropes. cool redirecting that to Yandere is misuse of the pre existing trope.

GD does anyone ever read my posts I said fine for a rename just the term (used correctly.) needs to be redirected to the right page covering well... the trope the term covers.

edited 27th Aug '11 2:08:28 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

PageAction: Yangire2
27th Aug '11 4:01:56 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

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