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Batman:TAS will Air on The Hub

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kyun Since: Dec, 2010
#2: Aug 24th 2011 at 8:03:32 AM

-puts on shades-

My body is ready.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#4: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:22:50 PM

Well Batman Beyond was already on there anyway so it makes sense.

The Blog The Art
SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#5: Aug 24th 2011 at 2:25:17 PM

The original is classic but the one that came after with the total art change should be left on the shelf.

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#6: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:55:48 PM

TNBA gets an unfair rap often. When it's bad, it's awful, but the best episodes can easily hang with the best of BTAS.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#7: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:59:36 PM

I think one of the biggest problems with TNBA is that the Joker design is awful.

ActuallyComma I am making sense! from a mysterious place Since: Feb, 2011
I am making sense!
#8: Aug 24th 2011 at 7:28:06 PM

BTAS at its worst was way, way worse than anything in TNBA. At their best they were about equal. And DCAU Tim Drake rules.

Except [condescending response follows]. Because [sarcasm here]. You do understand [snark], right? POTHOLE TO SARCASM MODE
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:10:27 PM

I'd say the worst episode of BTAS was likely "I've Got Batman In My Basement," which, while trite, was still well-written enough that you could get into it, and the characters had the personality to hold up the story - for as much as you might have dislike the content you could still say it was there.

I'd say the worst episode of TNBA was "Critters," which had a plot based mostly around action and had little substance or characters you could get into - ran more like what Brave And The Bold tried to do a decade later, but without any of BATB's charm or solid writing.

And I'd like to say that was just an example of the worst the series had to offer, but to be honest a lack of solid writing was present in most of the TNBA episodes, and while the best ones were top notch, even some of the better ones felt shakily written a lot more so than even some of the worst BTAS episodes.

TNBA had good, even phenomenal episodes to be sure (and I agree that Tim Drake is probably consistently the best thing about it), but in general it's writing was just not as good as previous.

edited 24th Aug '11 11:12:11 PM by KnownUnknown

SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#10: Aug 25th 2011 at 5:59:40 AM

Oh come on!! The new adventures had not only horrible new character designs (Joker, Croc, Two-face, Gordon, and yes Tim to name a few) with ONE rare exception (Scarecrow but had the lame re-tooling of Batman (The old Batman was cool in the way he could switch from laid-back and jovial Bruce Wayne to the obsessed and dark BM)to saty in BM mode 24-7.

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
Ronnie Respect the Red Right Hand from Surrounded by Idiots Since: Jan, 2001
Respect the Red Right Hand
#11: Aug 25th 2011 at 7:06:44 AM

four words to the TNBA naysayers that redeem the whole season

Joker's Millions

Mad Love

END OF LINE.

ActuallyComma I am making sense! from a mysterious place Since: Feb, 2011
I am making sense!
#12: Aug 25th 2011 at 7:23:02 AM

Early BTAS, before they had their feet completely on the ground, suffered from a lot of really bad episodes. TNBA was, at its worst, mediocre, and most of the episodes were really very good. The complaints are mostly They Changed It, Now It Sucks! stuff. There's nothing at all wrong with the show judging it by its own merits, and BTAS wasn't spotless, either. Plus: Tim Drake, Nightwing, Over the Edge, Roxy Rocket...

Except [condescending response follows]. Because [sarcasm here]. You do understand [snark], right? POTHOLE TO SARCASM MODE
dmysta3000 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13: Aug 25th 2011 at 7:32:47 AM

I hope this means that eventually Justice League Unlimited and the rest of the DCAU will eventually air on the Hub.

GUNDAMU GUNDAMU
SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#14: Aug 25th 2011 at 8:01:34 AM

[up]Hub will rock Cartoon net if that happens

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Aug 25th 2011 at 8:45:04 AM

^^^ Again, my point is that however bad BTAS may have gotten, TNBA was on average worse. Batman became leagues more two-dimensional - it felt like they wanted to make him grittier but didn't quite know yet how to help him keep his compassion or deeper emotions, which they finally were able to in Batman Beyond but which was glaringly poor in TNBA - and by a lesser extend so did Nightwing and a good chunk of his villains - gone are the Mad Hatter's mournful menace, Mr. Freeze's complex romantic reasons, or Catwoman's anti-heroic traits, and even Two Face lost his conflicted nature (and his tendency to cause inner conflict in others), resulting in them having to invent a third personality just to keep him a tiny degree of sympathetic.

Joker and Harley pick up the slack for most of the others (Joker's redesign used to be irritating but I got over it), Ra's keeps his interesting qualities, and Scarecrow was amazing, but when the hero is flat, most of the villains are flat, and over half the plots are flat, you get a generally flat show.

Tim Drake and Batgirl tended to be better written than the rest of the characters, though. This might've been the first step that led to Tim being my favorite Robin.

SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#16: Aug 25th 2011 at 8:53:43 AM

[up]Agreed. Batman Beyond scored big wih me not so much with Terry (Who I thought was limited in personality)was the variety of the Villans and the sympathy you can feel even for the worst of them.

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#17: Aug 25th 2011 at 10:20:48 AM

IMHO, Killer Croc's TNBA redesign make wonders for him. The TAS version looked simply stupid, in the literal sense of the word. TNBA made him visually threatening, much more ruthless looking.

I see Batman's personality change in TNBA as a natural consequence of his ongoing crusade. After fighting the same guys for so long time and time again, failing to see them reform every time, and losing Dick Grayson, it's just natural for him to become callous (and even then, he can have actual faith on others, as the final Ventriloquist episode proved). It's only after gaining a second, bigger family of sorts in Justice League he becomes more of a human being again. I think it's a perfectly valid ongoing character arc for him.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Aug 25th 2011 at 10:43:12 AM

I had my doubts but The Hub is really starting to pick up steam as a new network. The quality of their new programming, GI Joe Renegades and Transformers Prime, is rivaling the original shows on Cartoon Network / Toonami at it's prime.

BTAS has the benefit that every episode felt like a generally unique creation, even their lesser episodes showed a good deal of creativity. TNBA's greatest criticism is falling into standard action stories. The first episode of TNBA was Two-Face making a basic supervillain poison gas ransom to the city, which was really far removed from his anti-villain/gangster MO from BTAS.

nomuru2d Gamer-turning-maker from Port Saint Lucie, FL Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Gamer-turning-maker
#20: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:06:45 AM

[up]Fix your hyperlink. As is, it's breaking the page.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987
SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#21: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:09:37 AM

[up] There we go! http://www.batmanytb.com/animated/tnba/bios/killercroc.php

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
nomuru2d Gamer-turning-maker from Port Saint Lucie, FL Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Gamer-turning-maker
#22: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:10:53 AM

... I meant as in editing your post. XD

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:11:09 AM

^^^ It becomes more valid when they actually worked on it for a while - they did it better in Beyond. In TNBA, he became callous and compassionateless, but they didn't remove those traits in a way that kept his character three dimensional. It felt like they said "Batman should be colder and grittier," and made him more callous without really thinking that they ought to reconcile the way he was already - at his coldest, Batsy's most defining trait was his compassion, whereas in TNBA he rarely seems to care about anyone or anything. It seems downright dissonant with some of the earlier episodes (like, say Robin's Reckoning or Heart Of Ice, especially Heart of Ice which establishes that Batman knows he needs to be cold (no pun intended) as an agent of justice, and already acts so while keeping his goodness), far beyond a character development standpoint, he just seems to fall into an extreme with no real path leading there.

They didn't work with the character, they just retooled him to something else. Old Bruce did a callously jaded better - he actually felt like he was turned cold by the world, rather than just being cold for the hell of it, and Justice League Bats was much better amalgamation of coldness and compassion.

Basically, Bats becoming colder might be a logical change that could happen over time, but TNBA did not do it well - instead it felt like he lost a big chunk of his character, rather than changing to something else. And his relationship with Nightwing, ugh - they didn't have a falling out as much as it felt like they had no meaningful relationship in the first place. The worst part about that was that the tie-in comics to TNBA (I think it was called Gotham Knights) did it so, so much better. In fact, the tie-in comics better than TNBA in general.

edited 25th Aug '11 11:11:52 AM by KnownUnknown

SparkySparkyBoomMan Since: Feb, 2011
#24: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:13:37 AM

That actually made a lot of sense when you look back at the series as a whole

A low-class man will just talk; deeds are the hallmark of a gentleman
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#25: Aug 25th 2011 at 11:13:50 AM

[up][up][up] It looks more ruthless, yes. And really, other than his debut episode, TAS Croc was a putz. The circus episode was good, but it wasn't exactly an impressive showing for him. He was a joke in Trial and Almost Got I'm, and just a punching bag to show how badass Bane was in Bane.


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