I should point out that there is no point whatsoever in dual classing from a mage; you end up with a purely inferior second class that is massively hampered by the restrictions of Mage. Multis? Fine. Dual classing is to be done with care though.
Re: my own last post, I forgot that Imoen can still use a thief's equipment, even though she's dualled as a mage in BG 2, so she can do the ranged work just fine. May need to keep a few thief potions on hand for traps, though.
Also considering Mazzy; not used her in ages, but a pure fighter could be handy. Her starting proficiencies suck though, so might be too much work to get her doing something useful when Minsc and Anomen are both much more accessible (in terms of abilities and when you get them). Anyone got thoughts on her?
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.Mazzy has a remove fear(or instill courage or something like that) x times per day, which is pretty handy. Through a shield and that shortsword that casts mirror image on her and she becomes a rocking tank.
edited 1st Oct '11 3:26:22 PM by Blissey1
XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!So riddle me this, how would I go about making a Wizard/Kensai dual/multiclass? I have no preference between dual/multi, I'd just like to know what would be most effective.
I have a podcast! I think that you should listen to it.IIRC, the traditional kensai/mage dualclass is a human with as many 18s as you can, (str, con, dex, int) start as kensai and lvl up to 9, then switch to mage. A couple of adventures and a lot of scrolls and you'll be already dualclassed. Then you can just keep leveling up the rest of the way as mage. You'll get an extra 3 tohit from the kensai lvls on top of the normal fighter class bonuses, and can easily have 5 dots in whatever weapon type you want to focus on. Mage spells can easily supplement your AC and defensive spells mean you won't get hit much anyway.
Although duel-classing isn't really worth it in BG 1, there's quite a few good combos in 2. For one thing, you get so high level in BG 2 that being a single class starts to be pointless after a while. AC maxes out at -10, the THAC 0 only goes up so high as well, which means after a while fighters only gain a couple hitpoints per level. Once you have lvl 9 mage spells you can destroy nearly any fight in a few casts anyway, so the slow gain of more spell slots gives minimal benefit. Backstab can only go up to x5 (or x7 for assassins), and skill ranks become mostly pointless once everything's over 100 or so.
Dualclass characters definitely start weaker, but in the mid and late game they can turn your character into an absolute beast if well designed. Heck even mage/clerics become very very dangerous when you use summoning spells effectively. Lots of summons and lots of buffs can destroy almost any boss, especially once you reach the demon spells.
Your last paragraph is why Aerie can, if used well and if you manage to restrain yourself from killing her the second you meet her, be pretty damn effective late game. The mage/cleric does need to be used correctly though, or the benefits of an increased spell-pool will be wasted.
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Typically if I'm going for a mage/cleric, either as main char or with Aerie, I'll keep a dedicated mage and cleric in the party as well for the early going. The duelclass just acts as a supplement to my party's casters until they come into their own, and then I'll drop one of the dedicated casters, like Viconia, for a duel/class like Jaheira. Personally I think a lot of people put in too many casters to their party, when oftentimes a heavy combat group with only one or two casters acting as support can rip through a lot of fights much easier, especially once they start getting loaded up with fancy protective equipment. In the few instances you deal with someone that your fighters can't handle, the mage/cleric just overloads the enemy's spell list with summons and debuffs. Once defenses falter your fighters can leap in and take him out extremely fast.
Although really nothing's quite so fun as a 1 on 1 mage duel.
So, I started a new playthrough! Using Tutu to play through the whole saga, a couple of mods installed like Unfinished Business, but not too many. I think I've just used that, the NPC Banter and Music packs and a few random tweaks.
Addy, Elf, Sorceror, Neutral Good (my own alignment), stats are Str - 18, Dex - 19, Con - 17, Int - 11, Wis - 16, Cha - 10.
Why that? Well, a Sorceror has no primary stat. Intelligence is meaningless because they learn spells at a fixed rate regardless. 3rd Edition rules made Charisma important, but that's not the case in BG. So Int, Wis and Cha are basically viable dump stats, and there's no reason not to max out the rest. Constitution of 16 is a minimum anyway because of the HP gain bonus, Strength is always a bonus and Dexterity for the AC bonus (it will go to 20 because of the tome). I'll cede a point of Wisdom in Spellhold, which is fine. Elves have a dexterity bonus, which does Sorcerors nicely.
The party is Imoen, Ajantis, Kivan, Misc and Dynaheir. I ballsed up the NPC mod and didn't manage to make Dynaheir a generic mage, but Kivan has been kitted to Archer. This is a solid party with the classic "two melee, two ranged, two caster specialists" combo. Imoen has the Short Sword +2 so can serve as a backup third melee fighter, such as if the enemy gets past Minsc & Ajantis. Right now she's a little weak for that though. Since my mages have small spellbooks, they're hitting from the back with slings. Addy will eventually use Melf's Minute Meteors as a primary weapon; since they hit at a high level enchantment (+5 I think) with fire damage, they're great even for scratch damage on golems in BG 2!
The party does take a lot of micro near the start - I have to aggro enemies very carefully, baiting them for my Snipers. Kivan is a superb archer, especially with the extra proficiency points his kit allows, meaning a constant rain of arrows and bullets are pouring on enemies that are walled by my tanks, Minsc and Ajantis. Dynaheir in particular is all but useless until she gains 2 levels, and Imoen struggles early on too. Still, the party becomes insanely strong later on.
For now, I've been going around clearing the areas around Beregost and a few associated subquests, like Bjornin's half ogre issue, and Melicamp's amusing little quest. I never hit the Nashkel Mines before everyone is at level 3, and with my party set up it's better to err a little higher as it's fairly weak in melee early on - with essentially 4 ranged fighters and limited early mage support, a large number of enemies can force me to hit and run. Enemy ranged characters can also easily slay my mages, forcing me to isolate Kivan to distract and kill. If he gets into trouble, aiding him is difficult since he's pulled out of the effective range of my tanks. All this is why Mulahey causes me issues if I take him too soon - I have no room to run around in. Thus, it's best I wait until his mooks won't be a threat.
I'll take the Mines soon, but going to go after the Two Handed Sword +1 first to stop those annoying breakages.
Such a good game, and I'm doing it more efficiently every time I play it!
edited 2nd Oct '11 5:09:19 PM by CaissasDeathAngel
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.I always wished there was a romance plot for halflings for Mazzy. She's pretty great in some of her party interactions, especially with Korgan, and the whole Mazzy's-boyfriend-is-dead thing was kind of underdone. Although I suppose it's a bit of a waste when that's already Jaheira's storyline...
But yeah, if you've never had Mazzy and Korgan in your party, do so. They form a really surprising friendship and Mazzy calls him on a lot of his evilness. Every time I play through I try to mix up the party, there's always new interesting interactions to be found.
...Well, except for Jan. He just annoys EVERYONE.
edited 3rd Oct '11 1:23:04 PM by Kana
Jan's brilliant! I love his interactions with Misc, Anomen and Keldorn.
Korgan being evil rather precludes him being in my party. I really can't be bothered with the hassle of turning into the Slayer every now and again for reputation loss, and at high rep you lose too much to be worthwhile (often your rep will halve when you're at 20). Same reason I have to miss out on Edwin, though Minsc contributes.
Wish Kivan was in the second game. I know there's a mod to get him in, but I'm not sure on its quality.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.Jan doesn't annoy everyone, Korgan actually finds his (bloodier) stories pretty amusing, as I recall.
XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!Jan mocking Anomen is absolutely hilarious. My favourite Mazzy interaction is with Valygar when she makes him her squire. That's just too cute.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.
His sidequest is like, the most depressing thing in a Bio Ware game. Seriously.
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What about Keldorn's? That was pretty sad too I thought. Or Cernd's? Not that I ever really used Cernd...
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.This is true, but I want to do a crap characters I never use run just to see their lines...
edited 5th Oct '11 7:29:19 PM by Falco
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.I don't know why Cernd gets so much hate. I can understand people not liking him for personality reasons, but mechanically he's not a bad character. He's got awesome spellcasting abilities when you need spellcasting abilities, and he can be an awesome frontline fighter when you need an awesome frontline fighter.
Now why don't more people hate Nalia? She's boring AND useless!
XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!Yeah her Rich Bitch shtick is annoying isn't it. Why are all the good-aligned mages so irritating?
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.I dont hate either Cernd and Nalia, but I wonder why Minsc and Keldorn are so loved, very Boring and cliche for my tastes
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Xan-Xan/

Due to the way Dual/Multiclassing works, a multiclass character will be between 1/2 levels behind a single-classed one, (depending on where on the curve he/she is).
Fighter/Cleric (or the ever elusive Ranger/Cleric) are excellent multiclasses. Clerics don't need as many spellcasting levels as mages do, and level up quicker anyway. They also have some very nasty buffing spells that combined with fighter THAC 0 can let them dish out some serious damage.
Fighter/Mage multiclass is generally not worth it, but fighter/mage (NOT mage/fighter) dual class can be worthwhile.
Fighter/Thief is another class that gets benefits due to the fact that thieves tends to max out their utility rather early. (Even as a multiclass you can easily max out all thieving skills, especially with the rather large amounts of good thieving equipment, fighter THAC 0/Extra attacks is just gravy)
"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent