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Awful name: New Crowner 10/24/11: Dropped A Bridget On Him

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#201: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:24:34 AM

[up] They are thought of as inversions by people who didn't read the pages because they both have video game names. The trope descriptions have nothing in common. Removing the bad examples would be a good thing, especially as Sweet on Polly Oliver is the true counterpart to this trope. That trope is next up to be renamed and cleaned up because it's obviously being horribly misused.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#202: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:29:17 AM

So the only thing we can agree on is that this needs a rename to clarify.

The boss mans "Gender Shock" idea would require Merging Sweet on Polly Oliver with Dropped A Bridget On Him.

Anyways bowing out of this debate for a day for more imput its been just the two of us debating on this for a whole page...

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#203: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:32:11 AM

Can I ask for a condensed version of the issue here, so I can bring about an opinion concisely...?

I am now known as Flyboy.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#204: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:34:36 AM

Definitely agree with Shima that surrendering to the misuse is not called for in this instance. How about Shes A Boy Trauma? This is supposed to be she-turns-out-to-be-he (not the opposite) and focused on the shocked reaction.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#205: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:39:34 AM

So, wait, if it's supposed to be guy-who-is-actually-a-girl, Dropped A Bridget On Him is actually wrong by virtue of being reversed...

I am now known as Flyboy.
Antheia Whatever of Breath (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Whatever of Breath
#206: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:48:00 AM

[up] No, it is "looks and behaves like girl, turns out to have boy parts".

(Unless it's "seems to be one gender, is another", which is what I Thought It Meant. Why are these gender-split, anyway?)

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#207: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:52:13 AM

[up] Because the reactions are different as is common in Spear/Distaff.

  • Sweet on Polly Oliver: A male character has a crush on what he believes to be a man, often to his confusion. When their crush turns out to be a woman there's rejoicing and it tends to end in love and marriage.
  • Dropped A Bridget On Him: A male character has a crush on what he believes to be a woman. When their crush turns out to be a man, there's horror and recrimination and often violence. It's very rare that the character with a crush gets over it and there's almost never a happy ending.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#208: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:53:17 AM

[up]x6 This page needs renamed because its being used for a broader purpose of any "She is a he" reveal. Its a Gender Flipped counterpart to Sweet on Polly Oliver (as well as it often ends with inverted results).

Now IMO.

Said broader Purpose is being used for Samus Is a Girl as well however that misuse makes sense IMO because the way the page is written is just one way that said reveal is used. Changing that to the reveal in general and go on to describe the ways this is mostly done to make it seem like a guy using "Badass-ness and manly-ness then the reveal" as a Gender doesnt matter non-sexist message.

And create a "She is a He" Reveal and describe the ways that its used to get the point across that he is a she, like using Girly Run Girlish weapons (Yoyo as an adult) and other qualities. (said trope would have Dropped A Bridget On Him as a redirect since thats what most people think it is.)

edited 24th Aug '11 11:57:18 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#209: Aug 24th 2011 at 11:58:03 AM

[up] That's because there is a missing supertrope. Not because we need to throw out the actual tropes on those pages.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#210: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:00:25 PM

So right now we have a missing Gender Reveal supertrope, while the currently-Bridget trope is supposed to be about Gender Reveal Trauma and not generic Shes A He situations?

Just to make sure I understood the flurry of the last two pages correctly.

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#211: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:00:51 PM

[up][up]No if ya want to keep Samus Is a Girl as is its just The Same But More Specific.... Tropes Are Flexible

And there shouldn't be 1 supertrope really, they are typically used differently, with a large amount of examples (right now Samus Is a Girl and Dropped A Bridget On Him would be over the page limit combined), they should be two tropes.

[up] yes.

edited 24th Aug '11 12:07:51 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#212: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:03:15 PM

Yeah, I'm confused...

I am now known as Flyboy.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#213: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:14:07 PM

[up][up] Samus Is a Girl and Dropped A Bridget On Him wouldn't be lumped together. One is a gender reveal to the audience and the other is a reveal to the characters In-Universe. Those two have nothing in common. Please stop talking about them like they're the same trope.

The fact that you seem to be redefining the tropes at random is making this conversation very confusing Raso. Samus Is a Girl is the one missing a supertrope. Dropped A Bridget On Him is not. It has a distaff counterpart in Sweet on Polly Oliver and that is all it needs.

Besides, making a supertrope does not mean getting rid of the subtropes.

edited 24th Aug '11 12:16:12 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#214: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:19:49 PM

Not getting me here... I am saying Dropped A Bridget On Him and Sweet on Polly Oliver as they are written are Fine they both need renames for being bad misleading snowclones (Sweet on Polly Oliver is only two letters off it's related Sweet Polly Oliver.... Very bad)

I am saying that once renamed the Dropped A Bridget On Him Redirect should be pointed at the NNF reveal trope (Guy version.) because the misuse and misunderstanding of it is so bad. (but good inbounds so can't delete.)

Samus Is a Girl is the only one I was calling out... It is The Same But More Specific of the NNF supertrope (girl version.) since Tropes Are Flexible and the trope is already being used that way....

Hell look at the damn image picking thread for both tropes to see what tropers think....

edited 24th Aug '11 12:34:28 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
ArtemisStrong Wizard/Father of Tom from The Mended Drum Since: Jun, 2011
Wizard/Father of Tom
#215: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:39:41 PM

So, uh, about some new names for the rename under discussion.

Do we have enough good suggestions to vote on?

Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?
ArtemisStrong Wizard/Father of Tom from The Mended Drum Since: Jun, 2011
Wizard/Father of Tom
#216: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:42:54 PM

I can't help but think of really off-color ones (though this trope is about a sort of off-color situation, anyhow).

Sudden Penile Surprise Syndrome

Bent Out Of Shape (that is just horrible)

edited 24th Aug '11 12:46:10 PM by ArtemisStrong

Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#217: Aug 24th 2011 at 12:52:55 PM

Omg that was bad.

Distinctions on the tropes.

  • Bridget is Guy attracted to girl but reveal is a dude. Squick
  • Sweet on Polly Oliver is Guy attracted to Guy then revealed to be a girl. yay.
  • Bifauxnen is Girl dressed as a guy that the girls are attracted to (Reveal not 100% required.)
  • does the Fourth one exist outside of hentai? Girl attracted to Girl one turns out to be a dude... sex happens , only bad for Het Is Ew crowd I guess. (Aki Sora's author likes this... And she is a girl.)

edited 24th Aug '11 1:03:07 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#219: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:42:10 PM

Oh no... if nothing else, "trap" being used to describe someone apparently of a different gender is such a loaded term, it's just not worth the headache. Trust me, we do not want to go there.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
joeyjojojuniorshabadoo Since: Nov, 2010
#220: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:48:23 PM

And on top of that, it's confusing. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with a title containing "trap" that would have many people assuming "transsexual" instead of an actual trap.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#221: Aug 24th 2011 at 1:54:39 PM

Okay, I didn't know Sweet on Polly Oliver existed, so I let a lot of gender inversions slip by the wick check. When I was doing the check, I used "someone is shocked by a gender reveal because of romantic reasons" as the definition. So if a Bob turned out to be a girl and Adam was surprised, I counted it, same with if Alice turned out to be a boy and Adam was surprised.

So I'm with shima: We need a supertrope of "Gender Reveal," for Samus Is a Girl and everything else. However, I think that under that needs to be the supertrope of Dropped A Briget On Him and Sweet on Polly Oliver; Gender Shock seems simple. Then we can define Dropped A Bridget On Him as "Character is disappointed in another character's true gender," and Sweet on Polly Oliver is "Character is excited in another character's true gender." Splitting them by how males react and how female react etc wouldn't work; a surprising number of the wicks were women freaking out.

Oh, and I realize a few of these may need new names. Just keeping it as simple as possible by using the existing ones.

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NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#222: Aug 24th 2011 at 2:53:56 PM

Sweet on Polly Oliver and Dropped A Bridget On Him are more sister-tropes than gender counterparts, in my opinion. It's not a direct inversion. One involves two guys and one involves a girl and a guy.

Also Samus Is a Girl can never have a Spear Counterpart because the main reason it exists is that it subverts the viewers assumptions about Males=Badass, by having her turn out to be girl. An Actual Spear-Counterpart would involve some completely gender neutral-looking character acting feminine and domestic of something and then turn out to be a guy, which is kind of hard to pull off because it's a weird context.

I like Traumatic Gender Reveal for renaming Dropped A Bridget On Him.

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Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#223: Aug 24th 2011 at 3:27:05 PM

Example of the type 4 from above. (exactly where would this go?)

NSFW I chopped out all the Penis in the pic but still warning there...

Life as a Bridget is hard.

[up] I can happen though a Crossdresser acting like a lady like before the reveal. but again that trope is only one way to portray a He Is A She Gender Reveal. (its being used for all the ways right now.)

edited 24th Aug '11 3:58:57 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#224: Aug 25th 2011 at 7:45:33 AM

Man, you know you read too much manga when you can come up with strange examples, like a Spear Counterpart example for Samus Is a Girl. Namely, in the manga Otomen, the main character inadvertently convinces his cousin, when both were around 5 or so, that he was a girl by accident due to his Yamato Nadeshiko-in-training personality, and said cousin was horrified to discover years later that the main character was actually male.

Question - does this trope have to be exclusively involving biological males? While I don't have an example, I could see this happening with two biological females as well.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#225: Aug 25th 2011 at 7:52:14 AM

[up] That's not a spear to Samus Is a Girl. Samus Is a Girl is a reaction by the audience the the reveal of an Action Girl's gender. None of those elements are used in your example.

That example just this trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

AlternativeTitles: DroppedABridgetOnHim2
20th Sep '11 4:37:04 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

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