Considering the crowner only has twelve votes for three options despite being up for a few days, I say hook it, with a note and a link that the rename or not crowner is still running. Here
it is.
Can we get a title change? Like "define (new crowner today's date) or something like it?
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!As this trope is about the reaction to The Reveal being negative and disgusted, when we make it gender neutral, are we going to ban the female examples that don't have the proper reaction or are we going to remove the trope entirely? I'm still not sure how to make this gender neutral without discarding the trope definition.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickA gender inversion would need the Shock factor yes, they just tend to be more broken hearted depressed than guys who tend to get violent
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!![]()
The current description is...bad anyway, so it's unclear whether it does (let alone should) include non-negative reactions. The page just indicates shock and refusal to accept the person as their non-physical sex.
Well, I mean that is negative, but there's some wiggle room there is my point.
edited 14th Sep '11 9:52:07 PM by BooleanEarth
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - HavenSo they have a very different reaction, (sadness and heartbreak) instead of the trope reaction (disgust and anger). I would think that would mean that they don't count for the trope as that's not the reaction that this trope is about. It's not just shock. So we'd be making it gender neutral and then basically saying that the way it plays for one gender doesn't work for the trope. Or we write two separate descriptions of what the trope is on one page.
edited 14th Sep '11 9:52:01 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
The "two separate descriptions on the same page" is one of the options on the crowner, distinct from making it completely gender-neutral.
I think it should be about any reaction the characters have, the shocking reveal part is what should be important. Whether they take it in stride or not should both be included, I think, just mention that taking it negatively is the most common Character Reaction.
edited 14th Sep '11 9:56:21 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)Yes it's the shock of the reveal that's the heart of the trope, what happens after varies wildly on both sexes. I have seen plenty of examples where the guy after the shock and such still tolerates the Crossdresser just not a potential Love Interest. IE MM. (unless it's crossdressing Yaoi type works then it's anything goes after the initial bomb.) Most of those paraphrase "I still can't see you as being a guy"
Dropped The Im A Guy Bomb so to speak.
edited 14th Sep '11 10:50:03 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Why shouldn't we note the differences in reactions based on gender? That is a very significant aspect of this.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon StewartWe can note that there seems to be common tendencies, but not even necessarily a majority of characters of either gender react in the way suggested (Males disgust, Females heartbreak).
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Very much agree there. Also there might be some values differences here and there in western works tend to see rage in addition to disgust. (At least from what I have seen) reactions actually vary wildly
(Also from 8 minutes on this video
is the girl version.)
edited 15th Sep '11 5:49:34 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!Especially in Yaoi and Shōjo anime it's actually rarer for there to be a big freak out, If It's You, It's Okay is probably more common.
edited 15th Sep '11 5:50:50 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)I just switched my vote to "Edit Dropped A Bridget On Him to make it gender neutral, rename it, rewrite the description specifically to note the differences in reactions based on gender, and separate the male and female examples on the page."
Is it time for this thing to be wrapping up yet?
Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?Aye, the vote's swung far enough that we can effect the changes. I suggest we sandbox (or put here) potential revisions for the trope's description and put up an alternative titles crowner (this
or this
) here.
edited 20th Sep '11 4:38:45 PM by BooleanEarth
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - HavenWell, nobody took either of my suggestions and I've been busy with other stuff, so...no. I guess nobody is doing anything.
"In the land of the insecure, the one-balled man is king." - HavenI've tried to rewrite the description to be gender-neutral a few times, but I'm not having much luck. My only idea is to scrap it down to basically its Laconic, then let wiki-magic flesh it out a little.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Among the reasons I voted against the winning entry is that transgender trope descriptions tend to become completely confusing and/or unreadable when you try to write them in a "gender neutral" way.
Jet-a-Reeno!
Crown Description:

I just thought that it might get more visibility if it was attached. But if you think it would be better to leave it as is, that's fine.