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Removing Gushing from the Wiki

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So. Personal opinions on the main wiki aren't allowed, be they gushing or bashing. Now, bashing gets tolerated even less than gushing, and that makes sense; it leads to more flamewars.

But that doesn't mean we have to live with all the gushing either. This thread can serve as a center for keeping it in check. One function might be to alert people to pages that are really heavy in gushing, to the point that it's not just a quick fix and will need some assistance.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#851: Jul 10th 2022 at 3:23:01 PM

Lindsay's a published author now, and even her old work as The Nostalgia Chick had a narrative (though it has its own page), so that's a bit of a different situation.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
MissConduct (Septatroper)
#852: Jul 13th 2022 at 10:04:26 AM

The folder for the titular character on Characters.Athena has every mention of her bikini and her physique in bold for no real reason, and there's a lot of links to pictures (that might be fanart?) of her in said bolded sections, this seems like creepy gushing, permission to remove?

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#853: Jul 13th 2022 at 10:28:05 AM

i'm really not sure if there's anything worth salvaging from her section of the characters page in its current state, but either way i support removing it. i feel like it's possible to write about athena in a non-horny way since Wonder Momo is a similar game that hasn't attracted nearly as much creepy gushing, but it's something i'd really need to sink my teeth into before giving it a try.

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#854: Jul 13th 2022 at 11:17:03 AM

Yuck. Cut away, and then take a shower afterwards.

Troper responsible is eibeifongs

Edited by FernandoLemon on Jul 13th 2022 at 3:20:14 PM

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#855: Jul 13th 2022 at 11:20:58 AM

Here's what I can salvage. I left Chainmail Bikini (filling in for the, like, five others that talked about her outfit) and Depending on the Artist (sans the pictures and boldings), and I feel like we can keep Hot Goddess but I'm not sure how to phrase it (it's kind of an inherently gushy and horny trope, but I suppose she still is an example). Plus I combined Badass Princess into Rebellious Princess as the former was depreciated and this example never got removed.

    Athena 

  • Break the Haughty: She begins her game as a somewhat bratty Rebellious Princess. But after unwittingly unleashing an Evil Overlord and having to fend for herself in another world, she becomes much more mature and responsible by the end.
  • The Bus Came Back: Her appearance in Athena Full Throttle marks the end of a twenty year absence.
  • Chainmail Bikini: Somewhat Justified as she unwillingly ended in another world with nothing to defend herself, so she really is just trapped running around this outfit at the beginning. She can gain more powerful and proper-looking suits of armor later on, however.
  • Depending on the Artist: Details like her proportions and coloring have varied throughout her appearances. She's a bit pudgier in the original arcade title, while her newer appearances also give her long hair and slightly tanned skin.
  • Hot Goddess: ???
  • Rebellious Princess: The princess of a celestial realm called the Kingdom of Victory. She then goes on to save her world on multiple occasions. What sets off the conflict in her debut game is her trying to escape her life as a princess to go on adventures.
  • Voluntary Shapeshifting: She can transform into a mermaid or an angel to traverse different worlds.

Also as the troper active is still active he probably should get a message from the mods.

Edited by MissConduct on Jul 13th 2022 at 2:24:48 PM

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#856: Jul 13th 2022 at 11:59:43 AM

[up] implemented those changes; decided not to include The Bus Came Back as it's more of a Sequel Gap, tweaked Chainmail Bikini with a bit more info, and elaborated on Hot Goddess (she has enough in-universe cred for it). also swapped the pic per the IP thread

Edited by NoUsername on Jul 13th 2022 at 12:02:52 PM

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#857: Jul 13th 2022 at 5:05:57 PM

[up][up] Is it Chainmail Bikini, though? The impression I get is that she is fighting in her actual underwear. That trope is about battledress that is meant to be protective but covers too little for the job. Is the armour that she gains in the levels also very skimpy?

About Creator.Sean Malstrom, I'm not sure what to do. The article is low quality, many tropes are shoehorning in something he's said, the links are dead and from what I've read of him his fans are more those who agree with him than those who value his insight or knowledge. Still, the article is not so awful that I can cutlist it without hesitation.

At the very least, I think the trope list should go.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#858: Jul 13th 2022 at 5:10:26 PM

cut Sean Malstrom as a non-tropeable work.

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#859: Jul 13th 2022 at 5:32:53 PM

[up][up] the armor she gets is a bit skimpy, but certainly not a bikini. so it might be better served under Walking Swimsuit Scene like it is on main

Edited by NoUsername on Jul 13th 2022 at 5:33:47 AM

CytoZytokine Since: Jun, 2022
#860: Jul 17th 2022 at 11:14:52 AM

I found this line on YMMV.Falcom under the Broken Base entry.


Their sound team is considered nothing less than a all-stars holy grail
Is this way too gushy? Because based on my limited experience with the Falcom fandom, the fans have a tendency to overgush and overhype their music to unrealistically-high praise.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#861: Jul 17th 2022 at 3:47:33 PM

[up]It sounds too "gushy" to me.

CytoZytokine Since: Jun, 2022
#862: Jul 17th 2022 at 4:13:00 PM

[up]Alright then, I'll change the line to remove the bolded gush and rewrite it in a neutral viewpoint.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#863: Jul 17th 2022 at 4:41:37 PM

I rewrote the rewrite due to awkward grammar. Hopefully I didn't alter the intent too much in the process.

My musician page
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#864: Jul 17th 2022 at 4:43:04 PM

[up]It's fine. I actually think both versions are good.

CytoZytokine Since: Jun, 2022
#865: Jul 17th 2022 at 4:47:05 PM

[up][up]I do think "highly-regarded" is still gushing to an extent, hence why I went with "well-composed" in my revision instead because my intent was to note the quality of Falcom's music, not to praise it.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#866: Jul 17th 2022 at 5:46:43 PM

[up]The specific problem I have is with "...music that it spawned the phrase...", but I also was trying to be tonally consistent with the following quote. "They have a handful of good tracks" is incongruous with the suggestion that "they have no bad tracks".

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, either the acclaim can be mentioned both in the lead-up to the quote and in it, or both probably should go.

My musician page
CytoZytokine Since: Jun, 2022
#867: Jul 17th 2022 at 6:17:05 PM

[up]Alright, I see your point. Upon further analysis, the phrase "There is no bad music from Falcom, just some that is less awesome than the others." seems to be problematic in its own right because, if my hunch on it being a fandom insert is correct, it borders on Fan Myopia because it's assuming that readers share the same viewpoint of Falcom's music being "amazing" as the fans. I think it may need to go as well. That way, the "highly-regarded" revision can stay without coming off as hamfisted gushing, for lack of a better term.

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#868: Jul 17th 2022 at 10:16:38 PM

Saw this on Xenoblade Chronicles 3

  • Item orbs are back! Boo, cue traumatic flashbacks to hunting endlessly for rare Black Liver Beans and Rainbow Slugs. This time, close-enough item orbs will actually tell you ahead of time what items they have! Hooray! You can also just buy the damn orbs in bulk at Colony Plants if you're in particular need of certain items, instead of having to canvas the map for them! Double yay

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#869: Jul 17th 2022 at 10:24:58 PM

What even..?

Edited by Amonimus on Jul 17th 2022 at 8:25:40 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#870: Jul 17th 2022 at 10:36:18 PM

[up] Should i rewrite [up][up]

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#871: Jul 17th 2022 at 10:50:08 PM

I admit to writing that in an overly-breezy style and not making it the most clear. Though I do contend as someone in the fanbase that the complaints I'm describing are valid and well-known in the fanbase, and that this is clearly addressed at overcoming those issues since Definitive Edition's own Anti-Frustration Features to fix this didn't go far enough.

Basically, in the first game you could only find field item drops by collecting them on the stage. This led to a lot of frustration as certain items, infamously Black Liver Beans, Ice Cabbage, and especially Rainbow Slugs had a ridiculously low drop rate and worst of all you couldn't tell what kind of item an orb had until you already picked it up, meaning a lot of aimless traversing of the huge maps to pick up every single orb you could find. Also, these orbs often took a long time to respawn so if you didn't get them you had to wait to try again. It's a very notorious criticism of the game.

The Updated Re-release attempted to fix this by allowing you to just buy the items with enough special currency if you got tired of waiting, but the issue is that this function is gated until an endgame plot event, and you still had to grind for the Noponstone currency to buy them.

Official promos for 3 made it clear that they brought back the Item Orb system, which led to some groaning from Xenoblade Youtubers, but later news updates pointed out that when you approach the orbs they will change their visuals to let you know what class of item they contain, and if you get close enough, what the actual item and its rarity is, so you don't have to waste time running over to pick it up if it doesn't have what you want. Also, now you can just buy orbs in bulk at your home base if you don't want to spend time picking them up off the map or waiting for them to respond. These are very clearly aimed at remedying well-known criticisms about the system, and I have seen many fans on social media breathing a sigh of relief after seeing these primers.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 18th 2022 at 1:55:55 PM

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#872: Jul 17th 2022 at 11:44:17 PM

[up] Fair enough, As someone who played both XBC 1 and 2, I did notice a good chunk of these frustrations, and Im glad that Monolith is taking the criticism to heart.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Jul 18th 2022 at 2:46:00 AM

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#873: Jul 19th 2022 at 5:12:21 PM

I would suggest something like:

  • Black orbs are back, but to address how hard they were to collect in previous game [editions?], the player can now see which items can be collected on the map, saving on a lot of wandering to fish the right item, and at a certain point can buy them for special currency.

The problem at current isn't so much gushing or complaining, but that's it doesn't explain things to an outsider.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#874: Jul 19th 2022 at 8:34:17 PM

I rewrote it as the following:

  • Item orbs are back, but this time they will tell you what items are inside ahead of time as you approach them. You can also just buy them in bulk at Colony Plants if you're in particular need of certain items, to cut down on the infamously laborious grinding for rare orb drops by having to canvas the entire map for them and waiting for them to respawn.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#875: Jul 21st 2022 at 5:20:27 PM

I've removed the following from Irony.Web Original. It's pure gushing and has nothing to do with the trope.

  • Red Vs Blue:
    • invoked On more of a metatextual level, the episodes "The Not So Good Ol' Days" and "Self-Fulfilling Odyssey" from Singularity were both highly praised, but for the qualities normally expected to be seen with the other episode. To be more specific, the former was written by Miles Luna (who has a well-deserved reputation in the greater Rooster Teeth fandom for his skill at writing heartbreaking and emotionally charged stories) and the latter was written by Jason Weight (who, while being another great writer like Luna, has had more praise given to his skill in writing comedic moments over tragic and/or comforting scenes). When the two episodes came out, they then both received a very positive reception, but the reception in question was "opposite" to what most people were expecting - "The Not So Good Ol' Days," while still having its highly emotional moments, is often considered to be one of the funniest episodes in the entire series (Wash's Not So Above It All Skyward Scream over how he "Could Have Avoided This!" Plot fell very quickly into Memetic Mutation), while "Self-Fulfilling Odyssey", while still hilarious, was widely hailed for its emotional scenes (such as Wash and Carolina's touching apology to each other and Caboose's surprisingly heart-wrenching and serious discussion about grief) and is thought of as one of the most emotionally-charged episodes of the whole series.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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